this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2024
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This is more of me trying to understand how people imagine things, as I almost certainly have Aphantasia and didn't realize until recently... If this is against community rules, please do let me know.

The original thought experiment was from the Aphantasia subreddit. Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Aphantasia/comments/g1e6bl/ball_on_a_table_visualization_experiment_2/

Thought experiment begins below.


Try this: Visualise (picture, imagine, whatever you want to call it) a ball on a table. Now imagine someone walks up to the table, and gives the ball a push. What happens to the ball?

Once you're done with the above, click to review the test questions:

  • What color was the ball?
  • What gender was the person that pushed the ball?
  • What did they look like?
  • What size is the ball? Like a marble, or a baseball, or a basketball, or something else?
  • What about the table, what shape was it? What is it made of?

And now the important question: Did you already know, or did you have to choose a color/gender/size, etc. after being asked these questions?


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[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

My answers

  • It was sandy brown.
  • I didn't picture a person, but a real cat that I'm worried about. She's a female.
  • Like that specific furball looks like. She resembles savannah cats from a distance but she's a pure-bred mutt.
  • Around the size of my palm. Massive, springy.
  • I pictured the ball over the desk table that I'm using now.

I picked a lot of RL stuff (like the cat, or the table) to "build" the image with; I often do this. I picked all those things before seeing the questions.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)
  • What color was the ball? - Red rubber, like an old school dodgeball.
  • What gender was the person that pushed the ball? - Unknown, all I saw was a hand and the sleeve of a white dress shirt with the cuff rolled up.
  • What did they look like? As above.
  • What size is the ball? Like a marble, or a baseball, or a basketball, or something else? About the size of a softball. Bigger than a baseball, smaller than a basketball.
  • What about the table, what shape was it? What is it made of? Square natural wooden table.

Already knew.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I've always found this subject fascinating. Why are we all so different in this regards? What's going or not going on up there? Anyway, this is my result…

Tap for spoilerI imagined a bright red ball, like a shiny red plasticy looking ball

The "person" pushing the ball was just a disembodied arm, the ball rolled and bounced around the pool table much as a pool ball would

The arm was pretty much my arm. I didn't bother to visualise the person, instead concentrating on the interaction with the ball.

The ball was larger than a pool ball, maybe softball sized or even slightly bigger

The table was basically a pool table, green felt, but smaller or maybe the ball was just much bigger

All this I knew from my visualisation but when answering the questions I probably solidified my thoughts a bit. When viewing things they are constantly changing or shifting to match new information/ideas/concepts of what's there. I don't really see the whole scene at once easily, instead focusing in on different aspects of it. For example if I'm concentrating on the red, shiny ball then the table is just a green plane/background.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

The ball was white/light gray. It has the surface texture of plaster of Paris, but it is somewhat lighter than would be appropriate for its canteloupe-like size.

I don't think I actually pictured a whole person as pushing the ball, more likely it was a disembodied hand or the general sensation of pushing it myself.

I remember being specifically intrigued that I pictured the ball rolling back towards the center of the table and pondering why I had chosen the table to be slightly concave. I don't remember more attributes of the table, but I have the feeling that has more to do with inattention to its details rather than not picturing them at the time.

I imagine that, based on the framing of the story, my interpretation was to picture the sphere as a literal entity, but the person as the "concept of a push"... The table probably lied somewhere in the middle.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago
  • What color was the ball? Blue
  • What gender was the person that pushed the ball? Male
  • What did they look like? Skinny, pants, dress shirt
  • What size is the ball? Like a marble, or a baseball, or a basketball, or something else? Blue, smooth, baseball sized
  • What about the table, what shape was it? What is it made of? Around 2ft square, wooden, light color, four square legs

All of this was built in my head with each part of the prompt. Pretty sure I don't have aphantasia.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)
  • The ball was red
  • The person was of indeterminate gender, I only really saw their arm
  • They were wearing a blue button up over a white shirt
  • The ball is about the size of an orange, and it rolled forwards
  • The table was made of wood

I had to picture it again to get the shirt color but not the rest. I can say that the background was dark, almost like a dimly lit billiards hall, and there was a light shining on the ball

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I don't have aphantasia, but a rather vivid imagination sometimes. Also, a lot of my answers were indirectly influenced by my immediate surroundings:

  • What color was the ball? - Red
  • What gender was the person that pushed the ball? - Male
  • What did they look like? - I only imagined seeing the person up to the waist, approaching the table and giving a push to the ball. I pictured him with social attire.
  • What size is the ball? - Tennis ball, but very smooth. It was smack dab in the middle of the table, too.
  • What about the table, what shape was it? What is it made of? - Round glass.

A question for those of you who have, or suspect you have aphantasia, how are your dreams like? Can you imagine and "hear" sounds?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

I recall dreams the same way as I recall real events. There are no actual images or sounds that I can "see" or "hear" in my mind as I think back on the events, but I know I've seen and heard those things. So it's difficult to answer the question. Did I "see" things in my sleep, but remember them only as ideas, or were they just ideas in the dream too? I tend to think it was the former.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

My answers:

  • What color was the ball? Metallic silver
  • What gender was the person that pushed the ball? A woman
  • What did they look like? Short straight black hair, pale skin tone, fit build, black blouse, plaid skirt, black leggings, wearing black pumps
  • What size is the ball? Like a marble, or a baseball, or a basketball, or something else? Slightly larger than a baseball, slightly smaller than a softball
  • What about the table, what shape was it? What is it made of? Wood, square, about 1 meter/yard square, thick square legs one at each corner.

Did you already know, or did you have to choose a color/gender/size, etc. after being asked these questions? All of this was a picture before seeing the questions. Other things about the image that weren't asked were also there like:

  • the room was lit from a single light bulb above the table with a wide shade. Light was cast straight down on the table/ball and extended slightly beyond the table, but I couldn't see how big the room was...until the ball rolled off the table and hit the floor. I could tell the floor was smooth wood and the walls in the room must also be of a hard material because the sound of the solid ball hitting the floor reverberated. The light showed one wall was red brick. It was indoors.
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[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Purple-ish

Male? Maybe?

Too abstract I more imagined an arm more than a whole person

Baseballish

Square, I dunno it was also purple. I get very like, early computer animation type vibes from the whole scene. "Ball" and "table" without any context just leaves everything kinda blank.

I think I already knew. Maybe the gender one was a stretch.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Visualise (picture, imagine, whatever you want to call it)

I ignored this portion of the instruction because it was unnecessary to answer the question of what might happen to the ball if it were pushed by someone. I didn't visualize anything until moving on to the spoiler questions. Even then, my brain mostly went "nah, we'd just be making up something to fill in details irrelevant to the question, don't waste the energy".

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Red

Didn’t think about gender

Didn’t think about what they looked like

Ball was baseball sized

It was a square wooden table

Bonus, I imagined the ball rolling across the table and then falling off the table and bouncing a few times on the floor.

I didn’t choose any answers after reading the questions, but didn’t have an answers for the person.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Don't know, they were an amorphous humanoid so I uh don't know for these two, baseball ish sized could fit in a palm, the platonic ideal of a wooden table. The first questions did not make me change the thing in my head. I don't think I see color in my mind eye, but I can uhhh label things with a color. Like. This ball is red, I think to myself, as the ball... continues to ball. Maybe if I imagined a specific red ball it world be redder.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)
  • The ball was orange
  • I don't remember
  • I don't remember
  • As big as an orange
  • The ball was on a white surface
[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)
  • Ball rolls about two feet and stops just before it rolls off the table.
  • White ball, polished surface, shiny
  • Male
  • Tall person, slender build, light brown hair, clean shaven, white button-up collared shirt, blue jeans.
  • Ball was a bit bigger than a billiard ball, but smaller than a baseball. Smooth, and heavy. Like a white cricket ball but with no seams.
  • It was one of those large common fold-up trestle tables but with a white table cloth on it.
  • I knew all those without having to think about it, or choose afterwards.

To me the imagery seemed like a cheesy "how to push a ball" educational video with a paid actor to demonstrate how to push the ball in the correct manner.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Blue rubbery ball with small dents in it like for a dog toy.

Pushed by a man in a suit with brown hair but face of Olaf Scholz because I did read a news about him prior.

Ball had a diameter somewhat smaller than a tennis ball but bigger than a golf ball.

White table with very flat plastic top, like in a students learning room. Because I automatically associated this as some kind of experiment which I often did at school.

I could feel the table I rested on while watching the man push the ball to fall of the table.

I have a high level of imagination and work creatively all day in my free time, be it doing art or playing creative games. But this never increased in a way, I remember being able to create these same quality images in my head since I was able to read as small child.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

I'll participate.

The ball is silver colored/metallic, grapefruit size. A man resembling my partner pushed the ball. The table is a plain square wooden shaker-style.

I began imagining as soon as I started reading, with each additional word adding detail in my mind. By the time I got to the questions it was easy to answer them.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago
  1. The ball was red
  2. It was a man
  3. They wore a t-shirt and jeans
  4. A small sized ball, like a stress ball
  5. It was a plain wooden table made out of cheap particle board or laminated wood.

I had to think of questions to these answers after they were asked. The only things that I already knew were it was a red stress ball and that it was a cheaply made wooden table. I imagined that the ball simply began rolling towards the edge of the table. The person was amorphous at best.

I don't think I have aphantasia, but I do think I have a weak imagination. When I try to conjure an object or place, it's always like I'm peering through a keyhole. Like an image with too much vignette. The objects are usually non-descript and are more like concepts than things.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

The ball was a colorless wireframe. Color wasn't necessary for the scenario.

The person was genderless. Gender wasn't necessary for the scenario. They looked like a wire frame skeleton of a person.

The ball was roughly the size and density of the smallest size bowling ball.

Table surface was circular wireframe with four legs. Material wasn't filled in as I wasn't trying to model for friction.

My imagination doesn't tend to fill in unnecessary details. Too much wasted processing power. I also don't really envision things. Like, I don't "see" them in my head. I feel out the shapes and weights and other physical properties relevant to the scenario and let my intuitive understanding of physics roll the scenario forward.

Like, I know the ball rolled until it fell off the table, it fell some distance, then bounced off the floor three or four times with a sharp crack, as I filled in that the floor was concrete as soon as I needed to know how it would bounce, and the sound it would make filled in naturally from there.

I genuinely don't know whether how I think qualifies as aphantasia. I don't really imagine visual stimuli, but my imagination is very thorough for sound and feel.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Red. Before

Dude. After

Me. After

Baseball. Before

White card table with grey liner. Before.

Ball rolled slightly forward after being judged by the person. Stayed in the table. Before

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Blue

Gender-nondescript, like a drawing in a school book

See above

Tennis ball size

Square, particle board like Ikea furniture

Some of them I extrapolated upon after seeing the questions because having unknowns in your mind's eye is not uncomfortable to people with intellectual integrity

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)
  • What color was the ball?
    Grey, I suppose? It wasn't important until this question so it was kind of colorless, even though I could picture it.

  • What gender was the person that pushed the ball?
    Androgynous.

  • What did they look like?
    Nondescript.

  • What size is the ball? Like a marble, or a baseball, or a basketball, or something else?
    A bit larger than a softball.

  • What about the table, what shape was it? What is it made of?
    It was a rectangular table. It shifted from being smooth and grey to a lightly finished maple, then back again.

  • Important question:
    I didn't really think about these details until asked.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago
  • Small push, ball rolls a very short distance and stops
  • No color
  • Male, maybe an extension of myself doing the push
  • I did not visualize a complete person, only a suggestion of a body, and a arm/hand to push the ball
  • Size of two fists together
  • I did not visualize a full table, more like a camera view of a tabletop. Nondescript wood finish.

Did I already know? Sort of... My brain rotated through multiple possible imaginings. It worked forward, then reversed the logic to complete the scene. Nothing was set in stone: My brain decided that the ball would not roll off the table. Why? The ball has an uneven surface, it wobbled when stopping. Why? Because it has a surface like a soccer ball. Why? Because that was the first "look" my brain landed on that answered the question. I recall rotating through different colors and finishes, but after my brain imagined the ball stopping I had to come up with a why.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I don't literally SEE it like I would with my eyes but:

Red ball

Clown, no idea of gender

Again, clown

Ball smaller than tennis ball, bigger than golf ball

The table I am sitting at and looking at right now.

And no, I can and do imagine how things look. It's a different sort of knowing/imagining than actual physical vision or dreaming though. Which led me to be confused about what exactly aphantasia is.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

It's a gentle push so the ball rolls for a second before falling off the edge of the table and bouncing away on the floor.

Ball Color: Bright red

Pusher Gender: Masculine

Pusher appearance: Caucasian, Tan suit, head was out of frame

Ball size: Tennis ball sized, but smooth with a seam around the middle

Table appearance: A square, short end table on a white studio backdrop. Dark wood with a glossy coating.

The important question: I can confidently say every question I already knew and was just describing what I was seeing, with the exception of maybe the pushers clothing. After reading the question my focus shifted to it and it visually resolved and I described it. Looked and felt almost the exact same way that you might not notice the details of an object in your peripheral because the focus of the scene was the ball, and then at a prompt, shifting your gaze and taking note of that object at the edge. It was framed like some kind of ball demonstration physics video.

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