this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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So the supreme court already ruled the president cannot be held accountable for anyone they kill.

The vice president becomes the president instantly if the president dies.

What is preventing any vice president from waiting until day 1 of their parties presidency, and then murdering the president? And then instantly pardoning themself?

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[–] [email protected] 79 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The action would have been done as vice-president, not president. Vice-presidents are held accountable. This is why Trump got in trouble for defamation of E. Jean Carroll.

He defamed her as president and called it an official act. The case was put on indefinite hold. Then he said the same things while he wasn't president. A new case was brought against him and he was found liable. Then, Carroll's lawyer asked the original case to be resumed arguing that Trump's statements couldn't be an official act of the president since he performed the same action while he wasn't president. The courts agreed and resumed the case and he was found liable again.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Also, impeachment. One would like to think that even today, a president-through-killing-the-president-while-being-vice-president would be impeached and removed by congress, but who knows.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yes, but Republicans do what they want with no consequences, so check and mate.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 4 months ago

You grossly oversimplified what the Supreme Court basically "said," and then posited a ridiculous assertion on top of it.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I'm sure analogous situations have come up many times in history, such as in the Roman empire. The Borgia clan in the Italian Renaissance got a possibly unjust reputation for stuff like that. Machiavelli's "The Prince" was supposedly inspired by Cesare Borgia.

Part of the answer has been to be careful who you pick as VP. Trump picked Pence partly because Pence (at the time) seemed to have no presidential ambitions. It worked reasonably well, since Pence could have (politically) put the shiv into Trump during either of Trump's two impeachments. If Trump becomes president again, he'll likely get impeached at least a couple more times, so we'll see if Vance is similarly loyal.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago

so we'll see if Vance is similarly loyal.

Yeah. Considering how Trump may have actually intended to have Pence killed during the January 6 insurrection, my money is on "not particularly loyal".

I like to think there's still hope that people around Trump and Putin will recognize the clear signs of dementia and not drag the world to war, this time.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Well, logically the immunity would also cover the vice president, as the stated argument for immunity was that a president should be able to act without having to clear everything with a lawyer. Logically, a vice president should then also have the same immunity.

So I guess murdering the president to take their job simply has to be done while shouting "This is an official act of the office of the vice president!" as a battle cry.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

That logic doesn't work because the official duties of the VP are both narrow and distinct from the President. Its not obvious that legal powers confer from the President to the Vice President in any way except under predefined circumstances. The VP would need to wait until those circumstances occurred, for example if the President was sedated for a medical procedure, and then do the official act while they have the actual powers of the Presidency behind them.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

Well, let’s wait and see when it happens. There’s a first time for everything.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

In a trump/vance administration.... Not a damn thing

Probably a good bet it will happen

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It works for the Klingons.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago
[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

The president Can’t be held accountable is one thing. The vp as far as I know (if the vp killed the president) would need certain people in the cabinet to make him president. They’d have to sign off on it.

But of they signed off on it then really at this point nothing stops it

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

I believe the VP only becomes "acting President" and doesn't assume the actual office until sworn in by a proper authority (usually the Chief Justice of SCOTUS but I believe contingency plans exist). So it would be interesting to figure out when the immunity attaches.