this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2024
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Attacks on two DTEK solar farms last spring is a good example. They destroyed many solar panels and some of the transformers, which step up voltage for long distances or step it down for use in homes. Replacing the transformers and swapping out destroyed panels allowed the farms, which generate 400 megawatts, to be back up in seven days.

Timchenko said an attack on a thermal generating station, which experienced a similar amount of damage, took three to four months to rebuild.

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[–] [email protected] 154 points 5 months ago (6 children)

Decentralizing energy is the best defense. Solar panels belong on roofs and parking lots. Backup batteries belong in neighborhoods. That way when the power plant is down or the lines are cut off, there’s still local power available.

[–] [email protected] 70 points 5 months ago

Military justification for an expensive national energy project?
horny government contractor noises

[–] [email protected] 34 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's true, the more decentralized the energy infrastructure, the harder it is to remove or be damaged.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 5 months ago

Become an American patriot, secure our borders with decentralised power generation, on your roof, on your own terms!

[–] [email protected] 28 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

This. Read about Obama era PACE financing to achieve this goal.

Edit. Fuck republicans for nuking PACE funding.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Exactly!! Though I don't understand why so many country's and civilians are opposed to clean decentralised power generation such as solar, wind, thermal.

The fact that you get to generate your own "free" power, and its less likely to fail in times of natural disaster.

Its essentially "freedom" & "sticking it to the man" in one clean package. Its not what the media or propaganda calls "the green agenda".

The fact that it also has applications in better national security is a win win.

Decentralised power generation makes you a american patriot! No a green hippy.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (2 children)

In fairness, my understanding is that there are a lot of complications with adding distributed power to existing grids. That doesn't mean it shouldn't happen, just that there are engineering and safety challenges when power is coming from "everywhere" vs centrally.

And of course, there's a lot of energy companies lobbying against clean power sources as well.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This, and the fact that solar and wind are intermittent so you always need a baseline provider, you can't do it with "green energy" alone.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

Local and grid level storage can and should be included, but base-level nuclear is also good.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

I hear that quite a bit of the power infrastructure in the US is well past its life expectancy with more coming due for replacement over time. If anything, a national energy plan should account for replacing, upgrading and modernizing a lot of the existing electrical infrastructure since its so critical to the foundation of our current society

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yeah but wind power plants are ugly here instead of even uglier somewhere else that's NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard).

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

In agree there are always those few in a community that feel the need to fight everything, even it may be in their best interest and the best interest of the community as a whole.

Anecdotally, I used to live in a rural suburban neighbourhood, the type where homes have large yards between them. There was a proposal to finally put in sidewalks along the residential streets in front of the homes, by narrowing the street a little. This would allows children to walk safely to the new school built, and allow people in the neighbourhood to go on walks, or walk their dogs safely.

Anyways, the amount of push back from some residents saying it will ruin the character of the neighbourhood, or that it would remove vital street parking, or shrink their driveways.

The neighbourhood street was about 4.5 cars wide.

In the end the sidewalks got put in after someone (that did not live in the area), ran over a residents dog along the street.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

it will ruin the character of the neighbourhood

"Boy, I sure love the sound and smell of cars! Imagine if people walked quietly instead, that would be awful - who would I yell at for speeding?"

after someone [...] ran over a residents dog along the street.

Why does it seem like safety measures only ever get approved after someone died?

(Visibility bias, probably - a death is just a lot more noticeable than a "would have died in an alternative timeline but didn't because..." - but that doesn't make such deaths any less tragic)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

Meanwhile, people are raising hell when grid battery installations are announced. So much so that the instructions are then cancelled.

So stupid

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Ignoring transmission losses, which could be improved as well, the whole USA could be solar powered by a very tiny fraction of the deserts it has.

But that'd be a huge target to attack if it was all in one spot.

Much better to decentralize it

[–] [email protected] 30 points 5 months ago (2 children)

The thumb looks like something one would see in Half-Life 2, I swear...

[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago

That tracks.

Civilian life in Half-Life 2 is basically trying to survive with whatever remains after a war.

Civilian life in Ukraine is trying to survive with whatever remains during a war.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (2 children)

isnt the name of one of the hl2 maps "little odessa"?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago

Real life Little Odessa is in New York (there is a large community of Soviet / post-Soviet migrants there). The Half Life location is New Little Odessa though, so it sounds like it's not where real life Little Odessa is

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

HL2’s lead designer grew up in Bulgaria, so Sofia is the inspiration for City 17, and the coast is the Black Sea coast, incl. at/near Odessa.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Putin does not like renewable energy for this reason and allows decentralization.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Oil is also about a fifth of Russia's entire economy, so the less it is needed the worse it is for Russia

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (2 children)

you know what, how about people start selling renewable resources as a solution to energy independence

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

They already do

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

For me it's the main selling point. =D

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

And why so many people are interested in going off-grid.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Europe should sell ukraine energy at discounted prices.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

Yeah but power lines can be sabotaged or bombed

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

Ok I know they're in the middle of a war and all but seriously how much did the guy who installed the solar panels in the thumbnail hate kids? Lol there looks like so much space to put those couple panels and they're just like hmmmmmm howabout right here on top of the seesaw lol.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (4 children)

If the grid is down your industry is down. Large scale PV is easily and cheaply trashed with cluster munitions.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Wait until you find out how easy it is to bomb a coal plant

And how much more expensive it is to replace it

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

Not to mention how long it would take to build back up- even with 24/7 work, it could take weeks or months to rebuild while solar has a much shorter lead time, especially if there are stockpiles of panels around

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago

You seem to be thinking small scale, the concept is decentralised electrical generation nation wide.

Not centralised energy generation such as a single solar plant, a single wind turbine field, a single coal plant, a single nuclear plant.

To cluster bomb a single PV plant (in one attack) would be "easy", just as easy as a single coal plant.

To carpet bomb a whole nation (in one attack) with PV panels on every home, building, school, sports centre, field, farm would be logistically challenging.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Notes made after a storm: a panel with a 30 cm slash from flying plywood keeps producing, just somewhat less.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

But how come the experts are saying differently?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Which "experts" do you need for what's common knowledge?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

If you took a second to read you'd find their usefulness isn't withstanding attack, but being able to quickly deploy after an attack.

You're acting as if there's some magical form of energy generation that is impervious to modern munitions.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'll write it again then: of what use is rebuilding a small scale insular install if your grid is down, and can't get up because your power plants and high voltage transformers are toast? You industry can't operate, that's the whole point of this exercise. The residents and small businesses can survive on small generators, and they do.

Before engaging sarcasm try finding out whether the tree you're barking up is in the right forest.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You just don’t understand how the grid works especially with decentralized power.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

The grid doesn't work with pure renewable without month-scale storage. Decentralized has nothing to do with it. Most industrial production processes require 24/7/365 power availability. For obvious reasons not many such are still in operation there, despite aggressive load shedding.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (3 children)

If experts disagree with your "common knowledge", it's probably actually a "common misconception" which, given the sheer complexity of information in our world, is a fairly common phenomenon. There's no shame in being wrong about things you're no expert in, just in doubling down on your error.

(Of course, if you're an expert too and have evidence to the contrary, it becomes effectively impossible for laypeople to assess without knowing the history current state of discussion in the field.)

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