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335

‘Would you survive 72 hours?’ Germany and the Nordic countries prepare citizens for possible war (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 4 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 89 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Norway also advises residents to stock up on essential medicines – including iodine tablets, in case of a nuclear incident – and, like Sweden, recommends that people have several bank cards and keep a ready supply of cash at home.

Iodine is something that's hard to get in modern diets, which is why salt is iodized.

Our body uses it in our thyroid, and atomic weapons send out a shit ton of fallout. A significant amount is radioactive iodine, which is going to be hanging around for a while.

If your body picks it up, you now have a radioactive element accumulating in your throat, which is a pretty bad place to store a radioactive mass.

If you don't have iodine tablet, eat a crazy amount of iodized salt. You want to make sure if your body runs into radioactive iodine, it's already full up and can't hold anymore.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Wonder if there's a way to extract the iodine to avoid getting high blood pressure from eating fistfuls of salt

[–] [email protected] 55 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

You could just buy iodine tablets now...

But the high blood pressure from salt might kill you decades later.

A radioactive thyroid would make you wish for death as your lower jaw rots away and eventually falls off.

Don't half ass it because of a fear of heart disease. A large dose kills cells in your thyroid (still terrible) a moderate dose wouldn't kill the cells but almost guarantee rapid onset cancer.

It's why the tablets aren't "enough that your body needs" they're "a literal insane amount". Like take your daily requirement times 3-5 years level of crazy.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Also, I'm pretty sure they have an expiration date. If it's life or death, I would not trust them very far past that date. I don't think they'd be harmful, just less effective.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago

You can expect KI to expire like NaCl does.
The filler might be not ok after a long amount of time, but the KI will be and that's what saves your thyroid.
Here's some info regarding dosage:

KI dosage
from: https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-fda-guidance-documents/potassium-iodide-thyroid-blocking-agent-radiation-emergencies

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Iodine like salt is a mineral. It won’t ever “go bad” but the USDA requires that you put expiration dates on consumables.

I have several packets of iodine pills they don’t cost much and I keep them with my bug out bag.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (9 children)

What does potassium iodide decay into? It's not an organic compound.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago

Iodide ion, as present in KI, does not decay. Period. It’s that ion that your body requires. The tablets would serve their purpose for long after they are purchased.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

Fascist dictators on a war path hate this one weird trick!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If you have enough radiation to ever need iodine tablets, there's probably a hundred other reasons that threaten your livelihood.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That's not true at all. Fallout can be carried by wind over very long distances. And even a small amount of radioactive iodine accumulative in the body can be an issue.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

It's more the fact that a war situation where nuclear weapons are used so frequently that the average person will need tablets will also see shortages of food, water and created large flows of refugees.

Basically every bit of modern infrastructure would collapse, which would be far more impactful and urgent than iodine pills.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Again, you have it wrong.

where nuclear weapons are used so frequently that the average person will need tablets

All it takes is one nuke to go off and winds to carry the fallout to relatively stable countries far away.

But let's say that you are dealing with some level of societal collapse from nuclear war. You still need iodine. Without it, it won't matter if you secure food, water, and shelter, because you'll get some aggressive cancer and die anyways.

Regardless of the specifics, iodine is important.

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[–] [email protected] 75 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Should be noted that in Norway it is not just for war, but rather any emergency like natural disasters or someone takes out critical infrastructure in a digital attack etc.

You can see all the information that is sent out here: https://www.sikkerhverdag.no/en/

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Same in sweden!

https://www.msb.se/en/

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

And as expected, Finland

https://72tuntia.fi/en/

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Should be noted that in Norway it is not just for war, but rather any emergency like natural disasters or someone takes out critical infrastructure in a digital attack etc.

A digital attack would be an act of war, though, so...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

No, digital attacks happen all the time, nobody will go to war over it.

Example of only one type of attack in real time: https://www.digitalattackmap.com/#anim=1&color=0&country=ALL&list=0&time=18763&view=map

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

terabits per second, sustained..

Yikes!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Not necessarily.

It could be something as simple as "oops, someone downloaded a file they shouldn't have, and now all the systems of the power grid in a quarter of the country has been encrypted by ransomware"

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

If the July 19th Crowdstrike incident had affected Linux rather than Windows, the impact would have been orders of magnitude worse.

People have so little awareness of how fragile the systems we rely on are - it's not a matter of "if" - it's a matter of "when" we'll see a widespread incident that goes well beyond a mild inconvenience for most.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Here are the recommended dosages for potassium iodide tablets from the New York State government website.

https://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/radiological/potassium_iodide/information_for_the_public.htm #

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Governments are preparing for war because they want one. Cut the military budget to 0 and drive off lunatic politicians before it's to late.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Unfortunately a strong military is necessary to maintain peace

It might sound contradictory at first but you should consider that people will always disagree. And if you and your neighboring country disagree and they have 20x more military power than you, they might be inclined to use force to solve your differences

The only thing that allows you to have a civil and diplomatic discussion is the assurance that war is the worst of the options. As we see today, strong military nations are not afraid to abuse weaker military powers.

I understand the hate towards the production of weapons, and I'm with you. But defunding the military is a simplistic, utopian argument that unfortunately would not work in the present time

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago

I've never seen a more polite and constructive way to call someone a naive idiot ;)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (7 children)

Unfortunately a strong military is necessary to maintain peace

Peace is maintain by seeking peace and avoid conflict not by spending billions of dollars in weapons that in most cases are designed to attack and kill other people.

they might be inclined to use force to solve your differences

And that's why you want to cut the military budget to 0 so that there's no leverage to use force against others. According to your logic people will always disagree? So ban nukes and weapons before everyone kill each others, putting a gun in everyone hands is going to lead to a bloodbath not to peace.

As we see today, strong military nations are not afraid to abuse weaker military powers.

Again cut the military budget to 0 so that your nation doesn't abuse weaker military powers.

I understand the hate towards the production of weapons, and I’m with you. But defunding the military is a simplistic, utopian argument that unfortunately would not work in the present time

You sound like you are making an apology to war and authoritarian nations. You are not with me and you are not with the human race, you are against it. What's utopian is to believe that you can achieve peace by spending Trillions of dollars in war. What's simplistic is to believe that you can't do without a government tossing billions of public money into military weapons.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago

...oh

You doubled down. 🤣

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

I'm very curious as to what your suggested course of action would be if you were to "cut the military budget to 0", and then another nation with a strong military uses their military to abuse or murder the citizens of your nation because they disagree with your nation in some way...

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Don't forget the postcard to Russia inviting them over for tea

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Don’t forget the postcard to Russia inviting them over for tea

You must have confused me for a german politician

[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Its almost like the west tried to be cordial with Russia before Russia decided to be an expansionist imperialistic power...

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Both west and russia are exmpansionist imperialistic powers

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Which sovereign nations have the west invaded recently?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_invasions_in_the_21st_century

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change#2010s

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

RB probably also isn't aware that the US has been helping Saudi Arabia starve and brutalize Yemen for the last eight years too.

One of the reasons why I'm anti-war is that history has shown the US to be the bad guys more often than not.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

That pic is obviously of a much younger Putin and Merkle.

More recently you have this instead ... https://tenor.com/en-CA/view/merkel-putin-eyeroll-gif-9164919

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

There's some truth to this. One does need a military, but you don't need one that costs 2T a year. Canada and Mexico, combined, spend around 35 billion a year on war material, and both have universal health care.

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