this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2024
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Luigi Mangione

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submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (5 children)

Edit- Getting a pretty negative response here, and not really sure why. I support Luigi and what he did, but we don't need to rewrite the dictionary. If oligarchs decide to oppress, they will (and should) get terrorists.

It was terrorism. That doesn't mean it wasn't necessary. Squeeze people the way insurance companies do, and eventually they'll start to bite back. If oligarchs don't want people to resort to terrorism, they can loosen their grip any second. Keep fucking people over, and we'll get more terrorism... it's a pretty predictable cycle that boils down to 'fuck around, find out'.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Every murder can be called terrorism if this is.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It can be - depends on the motive. The word 'terrorism' stirs up some pretty extreme imagery, but it doesn't actually take much to meet the description.

If I stick a knife into a bag of potato chips on the shelf of a Walmart just for shits and giggles, I've just committed vandalism.

If I stick a knife into a bag of potato chips on the shelf of a Walmart because I don't like that Walmart drives local shops out of business, I've just committed terrorism.

Luigi committed terrorism. Don't conflate that with 'Luigi is bad' - he's a fucking hero, and we desperately need more people like him.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

No he didn't. He wasn't attempting to influence policy, or terrorize the institutions. He was exacting revenge against the person he felt was most responsible for suffering. That's not terrorism, that's murder.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

False. You can only commit murder against a human being. And Thompson surrendered his humanity a long time ago. If what Luigi did was murder, so was what Seal Team Six did.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Of course what seal team six did was murder. Even if it's justifiable, it's still murder. The only time it's not is if it's accidental.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I don't feel intimidated by luigi, I'm sure most americans are not intimidated by someone who killed a ceo. He's not a terrorist, he's a hero and soon to be martyr.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I bet the billionaires feel threatened tho

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

All of these terms can be true at the same time, y‘know the sentence "one man‘s terrorist is another man‘s freedom fighter". He‘s fighting for sick ppl and terrorizing the CEOs, I think that‘s what the comment was trying to say. The CEOs are also the ones up the hierarchy and in league with government, police, prosecution and media. They likely deliberately chose to use this term on him to bring to mind for people the disgust or fear response they get when the worst terror attack they have heard of is brought to mind.

So you can deny it completely (in the case of the charge which hopefully the lawyers can do well), but also you can argue by itself the meaning of the word and how it‘s used and if it‘s always bad (like say bring example of Nelson Mandela who was labelled a terrorist and is now widely known as freedom fighter).

So terrorist is in my point of view a politically charged term which is selectively applied by the people in charge to form a public opinion.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

'Terrorism' is a code word, much like 'communist' in the 1950s or 'evil' in a cheap sci-fi movie. It means what the government wants it to mean. It's not what happened on 12/4/2024.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

We're bashing heads over denotation vs connotation. I'm sticking with the former. Making up or ignoring definitions is a big part of what makes politics infuriating; we don't need to do that to Luigi.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Then why not use another word with the same denotation, but different connotation. Why "terrorist?" Why not revolutionary, freedom fighter, martyr, or saint?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Because the conversation is about what he's being charged with, which is terrorism. The scope here is legal, so why use an ideological framework to discuss it? He's 100% a freedom fighter, he's absolutely being made into a martyr - etc - but none of those have anything to do with his charges.

Pushing a narrative that he didn't commit terrorism isn't going to help him in a courtroom. I'd rather steer the conversation to that he was pushed by UHC into resorting to terrorism due to being victimized by their wildly unethical interference with healthcare. Of the two parties, he's the one that acted ethically, and therefore the jury should be empowered to nullify the charges despite him meeting the criteria.

Basically, staging the public opinion of "he didn't do it" is just setting him up for failure. "Fuck yeah he did it - may this be a lesson to oligarchs to stop pushing people over the edge - let's get him out of the fire that he threw himself into to help everyone."

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

No it wasnt. You being unsure why you are getting downvoted is pretty fucking dumb dude lmao

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

It was objectively not terrorism. Luigi acted in self defense.

Your liberalism is showing.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (5 children)

I mean, it was violence for the purpose of promoting a social/political view...which is terrorism.

Whether or not it is justified given our current circumstances, or the fact that the government is going to weaponize the law as much as they can against him are separate issues.

It can be a real uncomfortable discussion if/when terrorism is justified when all other avenues of peaceful change have failed, but it is what it is.

Edit: apparently a lot of people think it only counts as terrorism when you disagree with it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What social view was he attempting to promote? Afaik, he was exacting revenge against the person he felt was most responsible for his and other people's suffering. That's not terrorism, that's murder. Had he issued ultimatums, and published his manifesto, then maybe it would be terrorism.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

It seems to be the same social views we are all talking about now regarding for profit health insurance being a parasite on our nation. He left messages at the scene on bullet casings referencing a book criticizing the health care industry, and from what I read he didn't even have UnitedHealth insurance. I recall the early reporting after his arrest including a note referencing how it had to be done and he was the first.

If it turns out he really was just disgruntled and just wanted to kill a CEO for purely personal reasons, then yeah, not terrorism. But I feel like you don't leave clues and messages without hoping to be the first of many.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

He said in his notebook that he was sending a message. Sorry folks, that's violence for a political aim, terrorism.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

No, that's a revolutionary. Terrorists kill the innocent to terrorize the population. Revolutionaries bring justice upon the wicked.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Terrorism specifically has a negative connotation with it. You could just as easily call him a revolutionary. The only difference between "revolutionary" and "terrorist' is whether you like the guy.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I don't disagree, but he's not being charged with revolutionaryism and people are arguing that it's not "terrorism" so it's kind of besides the point.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The law does not define the definition of common words. Despite what the law says, ketchup is not a vegetable.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Again, we seem to be agreeing. But if his motives were based on promoting his political beliefs, whether or not they're correct, whether or not the actions are justified and for the greater good, and regardless of how the government defines it, it's terrorism. You correctly point out that he could also be called a revolutionary as the difference is largely whether or not you agree with him...but that doesn't change the fact that it's still a form of terrorism and people are getting upset that he is being charged with terrorism....which it is, and you would expect the government to use the word with the negative connotation here.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

It would have been terrorism if he shot up a school instead to "to raise attention to an issue".

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They charged him with terrorism because that's the only way New York state can bring first-degree murder charges.

Also:

Mangione’s notebook allegedly refers to the investor conference that Thompson was set to attend on the day of his killing. “This investor conference is a true windfall … and — most importantly — the message becomes self evident.” [emphasis mine]

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They charged him with terrorism because that's the only way New York state can bring first-degree murder charges.

Well that's quite a stupid law then.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It gets worse. If you kill a cop or judge they can also pin the first on you. The rest of us don't count.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Then all they need to do is deputize the dead CEO. mission accomplished.