this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2025
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[–] unemployedclaquer@sopuli.xyz 91 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Gustavo Petro's statement, worth a read:

Trump, I don’t like traveling to the U.S. much, it’s a bit boring, but I confess there are worthy things. I like to go to the Black neighborhoods of Washington. There, I saw a whole fight in the capital of the U.S. between Blacks and Latinos, with barricades, which seemed to me like nonsense, because they should unite.

I confess that I like Walt Whitman, Paul Simon, Noam Chomsky, and Miller.

I confess that Sacco and Vanzetti, who have my blood, in the history of the U.S., are memorable and I follow them. They were murdered for being labor leaders with the electric chair by the fascists who are inside the U.S. just as they are in my country.

I don’t like your oil, Trump, you are going to end the human species with greed. Maybe one day, along with a drink of whisky—which I accept despite my gastritis—we can talk frankly about this, but it’s difficult because you consider me an inferior race, and I am not, nor is any Colombian.

So if you are looking for a stubborn person, that’s me, period. You can try to stage a coup with your economic power and arrogance, like you did with Allende. But I will die by my law, I withstood torture, and I resist you. I don’t want slave owners on Colombia’s side, we already had many and we freed ourselves. Who I want to be on Colombia’s side are lovers of freedom. If you can’t join me, I will go elsewhere. Colombia is the heart of the world, and you didn’t understand it. This is the land of the yellow butterflies, the beauty of Remedios, but also of Colonel Aureliano Buendía, one of whom I am, perhaps the last.

You will kill me, but I will survive in my town, which came before yours, in the Americas. We are peoples of the winds, the mountains, the Caribbean Sea, and freedom.

You don’t like our freedom, fine. I do not shake hands with white slave owners. I shake the hands of libertarian whites, heirs of Lincoln, and of the Black and white rural boys from the U.S., in front of whose graves I cried and prayed on a battlefield, which I reached after walking through the mountains of Tuscany and after saving myself from COVID.

They are the US, and before them, I kneel, before no one else.

Overthrow me president, and the Americas and humanity will respond.

Colombia, now stop looking to the north, look to the world, our blood comes from the blood of the Caliphate of Córdoba, the civilization of that time, from the Roman Latins of the Mediterranean, the civilization of that time, who founded the republic, democracy in Athens; our blood carries the resistant Black people who were turned into slaves by you. In Colombia lies the first free territory of the Americas, before Washington, of all the Americas, I take refuge there in their African songs.

My land is of the goldsmiths that existed in the time of the Egyptian pharaohs, and of the first artists in the world in Chiribiquete.

You will never dominate us. The warrior who rode our lands, shouting freedom, and who is called Bolívar, opposes you.

Our peoples are somewhat fearful, somewhat shy, they are naive and kind, lovers, but they will know how to win back the Panama Canal, which you took from us with violence. Two hundred heroes from all over Latin America lie in Bocas del Toro, now Panama, before Colombia, whom you murdered.

I raise a flag, and as Gaitán said, even if I am alone, it will remain raised with Latin American dignity, which is the dignity of America, which your great-grandfather didn’t know, but mine did, Mr. President, immigrant in the US.

Your blockade does not scare me because Colombia, in addition to being the country of beauty, is the heart of the world. I know you love beauty as I do, don’t disrespect it, and it will offer you its sweetness.

COLOMBIA FROM NOW ON FACES THE WHOLE WORLD, WITH OPEN ARMS, WE ARE BUILDERS OF FREEDOM, LIFE, AND HUMANITY.

I have been informed that you impose a 50% tariff on the fruit of our human labor to enter the US, I will do the same.

Let our people plant corn, which was discovered in Colombia, and feed the world.

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 29 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Give the man some respect.

[–] ultranaut@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago (5 children)

NYTimes headline says he already caved.

[–] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm reading that Trump actually caved by sending people in non-miltary planes and not chained up which was the just the existing agreement. The pro Trump media is just spinning it as 'Colombia caved' to make him look good.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 21 points 2 months ago

That article doesn't contradict what he said.

From the article:

“I cannot force migrants to remain in a country that does not want them. But if that country returns them, it must be with dignity and respect – for both them and our nation. In civilian planes, and without treating them like criminals, we will welcome our compatriots. Colombia deserves respect.”

The Trump admin explanation doesn't line up with the timeline of events.

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 20 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Colombia sent their presidential plane to pick up citizens. The core issue here was the use of military airplanes and the treatment being dispensed to those in it, like being handcuffed.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The core issue should be the ethnic cleansing they are agreeing to participate in.

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 20 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm not sure where are you exactly aiming with your remark but I'm going to retort based on what I want to perceive from it.

It's better to have national airplanes pick up your nationals than to condone allow them to be transported in military aircrafts, handcuffed and who knows what else, like criminals.

To my knowledge, Colombia refused military airplanes to land/cross their airspace, while at the same time calling out the social upturn being enacted by the new american cabinet. They denounced the attitude of a wannabe dictator, and in a very straightforward way. The rest of the world should be ashamed and banding together by now.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

It's better to refuse it entirely rather than capitulate. Which is what they did. And they are now complicit in Trump's ethnic cleansing.

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 20 points 2 months ago (1 children)

So you would rather have your kin handled like waste, than secure their safe return to their country?

For what? Bragging rights? Bragging over blood? Would those be acceptable losses to further a cause?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I would rather have world leaders not be complicit in ethnic cleansing, but apparently you're okay with it.

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Would you want your kin killed for the sake of making a vanity moral stance?

What I'm okay or not with we can discuss after you answer my question.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Do you think he won't just start killing anyway? Do you know how much these flights cost?

You don't negotiate with Nazis because they don't give a shit and will do whatever they want regardless.

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Who cares about the cost? Nothing is more costly than spilled blood that can be avoided. Refusing military flights to carry your people is not condoning with the fascist regime currently in place in the US.

And, again, to my knowledge, all military flights are being refused to enter colombian air space, for the reasons you are pointing. Colombia went to get their people, after giving the US a piece of their mind. By contrast, Brasil received theirs handcuffed like dangerous criminals.

Leaving those they want to deport to die is coward. The statement issued by the colombian president should be undersigned by every other country in the world.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Who cares about the cost?

Read some history. That's exactly why the Nazis came up with the Final Solution. It was the most cost-effective way to deal with what they viewed was a problem.

The statement issued by the colombian president should be undersigned by every other country in the world.

Thanks, Neville Chamberlain. What could go wrong with trusting Nazis to keep their word?

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The US is using military planes to carry unwanted individuals, under inhumane conditions. Colombia refuses to allow those flights, sends their own means to get back theirs... and that is to condone the new US regime?

What am I missing? I admit to be confused.

And the highest representative of a country publicly and openly denounces the attitude and actions of a dictator in trainning, when other nations haven't, and that is not enough to make a position? What else, then?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You're missing the fact, again, that Nazis never keep their word. Negotiating with them fails every time.

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Exactly who is negotiating with nazis? Where? When? How?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Are you going to argue that Trump isn't a Nazi now?

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

After calling the entire current american cabinet fascist a few times in previous replies, doing that would be, at the least, intelectually dishonest.

That part is already well defined.

What I want to know, from you, is who is negotiating with them.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Petro saying military planes can't deport citizens to Colombia but nonmilitary planes can in order to get the tariff threat removed is a negotiation.

[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That's funny.

I remember reading the push was over the US deporting colombians, on military plains, handcuffed, as if they were prisoners of war.

El Chato threats - and announces - tariffs in retaliation of Colombia not accepting such flights.

Colombia sends their presidencial airplane to ferry the deportees - to my understanding, this is akin to retrieving POWs - after which Chato Cheetah balks and the military flights are replaced by civilian freight.

Win for Colombia. They get their people back, in humane conditions.

The fascists can still turn back on these terms, granted, but then it will be back to the beggining, with the threat of commercial tariffs, etc. Colombia goes back to sending their planes to pick up their people.

What else do you want?

Colombia to abandon their people on unfriendly foreign soil?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

What else do I want? Nazis to not ethnically cleanse? But I'm gathering that I am in a minority here unfortunately.

[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Brother what else is Colombia supposed to do to prevent an ethnic cleanse in an unfriendly state, other than sending planes to rescue their people from that state? Do you want them to declare war on the United States or what?

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Now there's an idea. Do what the U.S. did to them.

[–] zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You'd save a lot of pointless back and forth in threads like this if you just say what you mean, instead of making people drag it out of you bit by bit.

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[–] qyron@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 months ago (22 children)

I've spent a good time of my day going back and forward with you exactly because I want to understand with you keep defending Colombia cooperated with fascists when they did not.

They had people there, in need of help, in the hands of very bad actors.

What were their options? Abandon those people? Become as bad as the fascists in the process? Worst, in my view. A fascist is an enemy, someone who abandons their kin is a traitor of the worst kind.

What was Colombia supposed to do, in your view? Give me a straighforward answer, not a circular comeback as you have been giving. Blurting you do not want nazis to ethnic cleanse is not an answer to my question.

The fascist american regime (not Nazi; that was the late National Socialist Party of Germany) is currently expelling foreigners by force. I am sure many have already died but we are not seeing mass graves and killings of elements of certain population groups. Be intellectualy honest, please. I am engaging in good faith.

No one here is saying they support that cadre of criminals. No one is attacking you or your position.

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[–] Boxscape@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

NYTimes headline says he already caved.

How fast was that on a scale of zero to Liz Truss?

[–] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 months ago

"How fast was that on a scale of zero to Liz Truss?"

Just one awkward pause

[–] moon@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 months ago

Disappointing but understandable since the reports are saying other government officials, including his foreign secretary had to step in. I'm sure the argument that his personal reputation or issues with Trump destroying the Colombian economy was compelling enough

[–] Mihies@programming.dev 4 points 2 months ago

Yep, we are in lot of troubles if this is the trend of bending the knee.

[–] recreationalcatheter@lemm.ee 2 points 2 months ago

I did, it has since been rescinded.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 39 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 43 points 2 months ago (1 children)

No, his position has always been that the US could send migrants back, but it had to be done humanely. Petro objected to the military transports with underfed and cuffed people in it (same thing Brazil is complaining about). It's also why he sent the presidential plane to pick up migrants in a humane way instead.

After that Trump threw his hissy-fit and threatened tarriffs, Colombia reiterated that it only needs people to be taken care of properly and treated like people, and the US caved to those (imo very reasonable) demands.

Ofc Trump bullshits his way through what should normally be a political humiliation, but here we are.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

It won't be done humanely regardless and I have no idea why people think it will. That's my biggest issue here. Trusting a Nazi to keep his word.

[–] Gordito@lemmy.world 35 points 2 months ago

This guy has balls and is saying what no one is saying. Stand up to the bully.

Sadly the president of El Salvador wouldn’t do anything but lick Trump's nutsack. I have been warning everyone in my family about that fascist oligarch crypto bro and everyone just points to lower crime rates, ignoring the suspension of civil liberties and the unacceptable prisons they built. Prisons in which innocent people surely rot among the criminals. And of course now he’s bowing to trump and musk.

Reminder he was the only one who refused to denounce Putin for invading Ukraine

[–] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 months ago (2 children)

MBFC:

Overall, we rate The People’s Dispatch as Far-Left Biased based on promoting Marxist-Leninist perspectives. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to consistent one-sided reporting that lacks context and a complete lack of transparency.

[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 22 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I'm curious, do you think there is some bias in this article? What is it?

In case you doubt their translation, you can find the original source of the statement by Petro here.

Is there some other source, which you consider less biased, which has published an English-language translation of his response to Trump?

Or, would you consider any reporting at all of this head of state's response to be intrinsically biased?

[–] breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I used that link to look up the source. It wasn't here so I posted it here. I do the same with archive links.

I didn't report this and don't have a problem with it. In general, the fact that they don't disclose the country they operate out of is problematic since we can't know if they're operating from a place where telling the truth is illegal.

Edit: I should also say that it's important they've never failed a fact check. I don't really care about them having editorial bias as long as we know what it is.

[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I used that link to look up the source. It wasn’t here so I posted it here. I do the same with archive links.

Do you post MBFC links on articles from outlets they classify as "unbiased" too, or just the "biased" ones?

As others have pointed out many times before, the entirely flawed premise behind MBFC is that centrism correlates with credibility and/or factualness.

I didn’t report this and don’t have a problem with it.

cool 👍

In general, the fact that they don’t disclose the country they operate out of is problematic

Who doesn't disclose where People Dispatch operates out of? MBFC? Yeah, they don't, because they're lazy hacks who's job it is to impugn the reputation of anyone doing any journalism that isn't in service of the status quo.

since we can’t know if they’re operating from a place where telling the truth is illegal.

A couple minutes of research shows that (although their contributors are all over the world) their legal entity People's Dispatch Ltd. is registered in New York. So, the way things are headed, I guess actually you might be on to something here soon 😬

Edit: I should also say that it’s important they’ve never failed a fact check. I don’t really care about them having editorial bias as long as we know what it is.

The notion that any outlet could have no bias in what they decide is and isn't worthy of reporting on, especially the people MBFC says are unbiased, is ridiculous. And it's usually not difficult to see what an outlet's bias is without relying on a 3rd party using their own bias to classify someone else's.

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[–] recreationalcatheter@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Wow, a lot of people emotionally disagree with that quote. You can tell because 30+ down voted and you maybe see 1 of them commenting to take a stance.

Cowards who are afraid of reality deserve no respect.

[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago

Wow, a lot of people emotionally disagree with that quote. You can tell because 30+ down voted and you maybe see 1 of them commenting to take a stance.

Cowards who are afraid of reality deserve no respect.

Maybe... it got all those downvotes because it was a ridiculous thing to post in reply to an article which is simply reporting facts without any bias whatsoever, and posting that comment here in this context appears to be an attempt at discrediting Petro (who is, in fact... a leftist 😱 ...watch out) in response to his standing up to to Trump?

And maybe all those other people downvoting it didn't bother replying because I had already posted my reply (which adequately pointed out the absurdity of it) right after the comment was posted? 🤔

principal skinner out of touch meme, top panel "Wow, a lot of people emotionally disagree with that quote." bottom panel "Cowards who are afraid of reality deserve no respect."

[–] Boiglenoight@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

Didn’t Trump say if Kamala was elected we’d have WW3? It’s been less than a week and we’re trying to start some $&@!

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