this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2025
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[–] [email protected] 240 points 1 month ago (6 children)

I think we need to have a tough talk about why it’s so much harder to have kids these days, but that would involve talking about wealth inequality and the death of the community.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yeah. Not having retired family in hood health nearby is an issue. Someone had to move for their career. Or died. Or is too fragile. Or still working.

Nearly need polygamy for the economic certainty.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 month ago (2 children)

My wife and I have 6 month old twins… we’re both only children too. We are so lucky that my mother in law moved to our town as soon as we told her. Both of my parents are disabled, and cannot assist. Also, my wife getting the 12 weeks fmla / baby bonding was fine, but not great. I got nothing for paternity leave from my office and took two weeks of pto when they were born. It was and still is rough. If we didn’t have MIL around, we’d be in a real tough spot…

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 month ago (3 children)

It's really straightforward to understand, there's no "third places" for kids and kids are generally undesired in US society. It used to be, even if you weren't religious, you had community because everyone in the neighborhood looked out for each other's kids.

It's a lot easier when you're not outnumbered by kids and can swap with other adults, even if it's 30 minutes to get a shower. Everyone is so isolated these days, it's much more difficult to build support like that unless you are religious or have family involvement.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm definitely not having kids for this reason, and many more. I'm doing I'd say okay right now. I'm stable ish. Why would I want to change that at all? I see my peers having kids and immediately they can't afford to even go out to eat, and don't have time to get a beer once every 4 months. They chose that, I don't hold them against it, but why would I risk where I am for that?

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[–] [email protected] 169 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I have a baby.

This is accurate.

[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 month ago

I have twins.

Can confirm. totally accurate

[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 month ago (10 children)

While they are <5 years old yea

But let me tell you, once you cross that magical school threshold things get significantly easier. Though you'll have to deal with more and more social type problems, but those are easy IMO as it's mostly just talking with them

Each year after that is easier...at least until the teen years, but again that's more social/attitude type problems, at least you can just leave a 15 year old at home by themselves and go socialize by yourself and stuff

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago (2 children)

This week is my five-year-old's winter break from school. I was not aware of that fact until yesterday.

I do love them and being with them (my post history should reinforce that if you doubt me); I don't regret parenthood in the least; but their presence has definitely altered my plans for the week, especially those related to work. (I live in a rural area and have no friends here outside of my household, so socializing has not significantly changed for me.)

Point being, you're definitely correct about that part.

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[–] [email protected] 123 points 1 month ago (2 children)

If you don't want kids, don't have kids.

Don't let family, or even your significant other pressure in to it.

I'm sure it is fulfilling for some, but some parents are carrying too much guilt to admit have a kid can lead to depression.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 month ago

It definitely can. It took me 5 years after my kids were born to feel relatively normal again. 5 years is a long time to feel like you're essentially trapped in your home. Granted, covid certainly didn't help with that, but the pressure to act like everything is amazing all the time never made sense to me.

Kids are hard. There's good moments too but as a percentage of your time they are more rare than the bad. Your brain does a good job of filtering out the bad when you look back on those times but that doesn't make it easier to deal with in the moment.

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[–] [email protected] 102 points 1 month ago (13 children)

There's research that found that people without children are happier than people with children.

[–] [email protected] 97 points 1 month ago (3 children)

The urge to cum inside is the siren song of many

[–] [email protected] 77 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Vasectomy is a beautiful thing

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Sounds like a kind of crazy blanket statement for actual researchers to make but then again sociology research.. well..

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 month ago (8 children)

Why is it crazy? It seems like the most sensible conclusion - no kids reduces stress significantly. Maybe in a world without need it’d be the other way around, but we don’t live in a post-scarcity society, do we?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 month ago

mist Americans can’t afford kids, the main reason is simple as that

curious what happiness rates look like in real first world countries

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I'm trying to imagine applying this logic to anything else.

Telling a friend not to try out for the baseball team, because playing baseball will increase your stress. Warning my sister not to watch a scary movie, because evidence shows they cause fear and discomfort. Breaking off a date with a cutie, because I've got butterflies and I don't want to feel anxious.

What do these sociologists think about rollercoasters or car races or heavy metal concerts, I wonder?

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The study also said that people with children felt more fulfilled over all 🤷‍♀️

They measured basically immediate happiness and long term happiness. In immediate happiness, the child free group won. In longterm happiness, the parents won. Did a lot of research into that before deciding to have a baby.

Just gotta decide what works best for you and your life style

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

According to this study, after adjusting for income, having children is actually associated with higher happiness and well-being.

From a Psychology Today article that summarizes it:

However, household income may not be a good indicator of financial stress. A family with low income that lives in an area with a low cost of living might experience less financial stress than a family with a higher income that lives in an area with a much higher cost of living. Therefore, the researchers conducted an additional analysis in which they included a direct measure of whether or not the family experienced difficulties in paying bills in the last year. This analysis showed that difficulties in paying bills represented a central influence factor for the relation of having children and parental well-being. When the researchers statistically controlled for financial difficulties, having children was actually related to greater well-being in parents.

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[–] [email protected] 81 points 1 month ago (29 children)

I'm finding very little of this thread resonates with me. I have a toddler who I love and get to spend a whole day off with during the week. I still get to do my running, cycling, rock climbing. I get some reading done most nights.

I've mostly sacrificed video games and social life, but rock climbing is social and a happy child is far more rewarding than games.

There are sacrifices, but I don't feel like I've given up my life. Is this because I don't live in the USA?

[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 month ago

It is because people are different.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 month ago (7 children)

Not living in the USA most definitely helps. The age of your kids makes a difference. My youngest is 16 months old and in his phase where he has no awareness of danger and sleeps like shit still and my gas tank is empty 24/7 by the shitty quality of sleep with the constant mental energy spent making sure he doesn't kill himself. And that is when everyone is healthy.

I would litterally kill for them, but it is easy to understand why people feel like they do, especially with the current economic and societal context.

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 month ago (5 children)

At work, I was recently on one of the coffee-fetching breaks. Well, I actually fetched my trusty herbal tea. Then we met another guy at the coffee machine and they all started talking about how much coffee they drank. Eventually, they came to the conclusion that they were all addicted, because they had kids. And I just stood there with my trusty herbal tea, like yep, I don't have kids.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 month ago (12 children)

Married 18 years, no kids. I think I drink something like 36+ ounces of coffee a day. Myth disproven, I guess.

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[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 month ago (6 children)

I don't even understand how people fine the time, energy, and most importantly money to have children. I can barely find all three to do my hobbies.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Oh that's easy. When you have kids, you stop having time for those hobbies. So you don't have to worry about spending money on them anymore.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

The kid becomes the hobby. Children are fascinating, they're always growing and changing, they present a host of new challenges, and watching them grow up is at least as exciting as watching my Gundam model collection grow or golf score improve.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 month ago (6 children)

Simple: the moment you have a child, you stop being the person who had hobbies and interests and become a parent, a single-minded organism that exists solely to make sure your children make it to maturity in good shape. Your Spotify Wrapped becomes Baby Shark, your guitar or mountain bike or whatever gets ebayed to make room for a nursery, and travel plans become fiction, written around a character who is no longer you, a stolid lump of responsibility.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 month ago (6 children)

This does not sound very appealing, tbh

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That's because it omits what all of the things lost get replaced with. The time spent with your kid is incredible. Yes your YouTube playlist gets taken over by baby shark, but also you get to see them go from a lump that can barely move, to being able to do situps, then walk, then run up to you and start clapping their hands making the baby shark motions, and start cackling with the most genuine laughter you will ever hear in you life as you get up off the couch and pretend to scream "oh no the baby shark is gonna get me" as they chase you around the house.

It's good times.

It's also bad times. Like when you have to tell them no, or stop, or bed time, and they scream the scream of pure despair, as nothing in life could possibly be as painful, as terrible, as inhumanly awful as being told you're not allowed to roll around in the broken glass that you just shattered on the ground by wildly throwing your teddy bear across the room.

Your life becomes singularly focused, You lose almost all of the things you were before, but your life is always interesting and meaningful. Except to other people. Other people think your hobbyless, in bed at 8 life, is boring.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Yeah...even then.

Sounds like a lot of rationalization and silver linings for a sunk cost. I mean, if parents feel fulfilled, awesome. But outwardly, it's a hard sell. Unless the family has wealth, the odds are high that any kid born in the US is likely to have a worse experience than their parents did.

If I use my own, elder Millennial born of Boomers experiential framework, having children ultimately seems extremely selfish. The kids are born into a hellscape of Capitalistic predatory systems, and have to struggle for years, or decades to gain any kind of agency. Meanwhile, the ROI for all that stress and trauma is increasingly less. So, why put them through it? So that I can say I have progeny? To scratch a biological imperative's itch? Nah. No thanks. The world doesn't deserve kids; it hasn't earned them.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Stop giving into social pressure to have children.

If you truly want to, have the resources, & you're okay with making a lot of personal sacrifices, go for it.

But don't do it just because it's "expected of you" or anything else people say to try and guilt you into it. It will end up making everyone involved miserable.

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 month ago (22 children)

babies stop being that hard after a few years

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 month ago (4 children)

My two year old has been two for the past 5 years...

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Actually, I held a baby once. It wasn't hard at all. It was actually super squishy.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Can't even escape this by being queer - I'm mid 30s and about half of my straight couple friends have kids now, none of the queer couples do, and yet we're still asked about it sometimes, it's so odd.

Fortunately all my siblings have at least one now so finally my mum's stopped asking...

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 month ago (5 children)

The first 3-5 years is incredibly stressful but it gets better as the kids are able to do more things for themselves and aren't trying to kill themselves 24/7.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 month ago

The thing about kids is they make you notice aging. They grow up fast but you realize you still are too.

Hunching over in your 20s vs your 30s can be a big feel.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 month ago

On one hand, kids are great. They can come with a ton of joy and rewarding experiences. However, they are also exhausting, expensive, and will sometimes push you to the point where you'll seriously wonder if you made a huge mistake.

I have three kids and I love them very much. I wouldn't want to be without any of them but I don't blame anyone for not wanting to have any. Being a parent is incredibly hard work.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago

Simply - Misery loves company.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (8 children)

Having a child literally rewires your brain and pumps you full of hormones which make you believe that having a baby is the most wonderful thing in the world. Parents go on and on about "you can't understand until you do it!" Which absolutely makes sense because theres no other way to get that specific neurotransmitter cocktail. But that experience isn't objective reality any more than taking acid is. Therefore parents are arguably the worst people to speak objectively about the experience of parenthood. They are just too close to the subject. I feel like I am a much more objective observer of their experience, and it looks pretty awful to me.

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