General discussions about "science" itself
Be sure to also check out these other Fediverse science communities:
https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/01/20/golden-retriever-lifespan-17-years/
I fell into a rabbit hole about claims that golden retriever lifespan has halved since the 1970s, sadly I can't find data to support the theory other then citations in older books.
We’ve accidentally ~~bread~~ (lol) bred some dogs for a lot of things, like not being able to properly breathe, eyes popping out, weird joint shit, and being riddled with cancer.
Edit: one might even say that some breeds are quite akin to deli meats - that is to say, they’re often in bread
Most dog food is filled with carbs, because it's cheaper. Just like carbs are causing human obesity it's causing canine obesity.
It's not a species appropriate diet for dogs. Just like humans get addicted to carbs so do dogs (that's why it's a great training tool/treat)
The poison is in the portion. Humans have lived off carbs for many years. Dogs evolved around humans to be able to digest our starchy leftover foods. I give my dog a spoonful of my porridge or brown rice and he's fine. I stop him eating whole slices of pizza we find on walkies as its too much.
Adding to this. I started keto 2ish months ago, so no carbs or sugar. (Sub 20g a day is my focus). I've lost 25lbs, and 4-5 pants sizes by just eating different. Haven't even started working out yet. It's clearly carbs and sugar that are horrid for our bodies. I went to the buffet for ayce the other day, ate 6 plates and didn't feel like crap. Normally I'd have 3 maybe 4 and feel like a massive pile of bloated garbage for hours
For my dog, I look for anyone without corn. I never feed her the same dog food bag after bag, she never gets upset stomachs, can easily adapt to new foods without sensitivity issues and all treats are 1 ingredient. Liver, or duck breast or pig ear. No 'milk bones' or other filler foods. She's lean like a dog should be.
Out of curiosity have you made the correlation that by strictly controlling your diet it’s actually calories you’re restricting which is causing the weight loss?
Let me introduce you to the The Carbohydrate-Insulin Model of Obesity - Beyond “Calories In, Calories Out”: https://doi.org/10.1001/jamainternmed.2018.2933 - Full Paper Here
TLDR: Insulin is the cause of almost all obesity you see. Carbohydrates drive blood sugar, blood sugar drives insulin, insulin drives weight gain. As a good example - T1Ds who don't take their insulin wont gain weight, no matter how much they eat.
T1D who don’t take their insulin won’t gain weight because of vomiting and dying from diabetic ketoacidosis. Sorry, but is is a horrible example and whoever has DM type 1, please take your insulin. People are really dying from DKA and while it is hard to prevent some factors triggering DKA, compliance with insulin is definitely within our control.
Insulin (and to be more precise it’s baseline level and spikes) is one of the obesitygenic factors. But there are much more other factors there too, and reducing such complex multifactorial disease as obesity to insulin only is incorrect.
Otherwise good paper and thank you for adding full article!
Insulin (and to be more precise it’s baseline level and spikes) is one of the obesitygenic factors. But there are much more other factors there too, and reducing such complex multifactorial disease as obesity to insulin only is incorrect.
I'd love to learn about the other factors. Can you illuminate a more correct understanding for me?
Pathophysiology and risk factors are actually a pretty much half of the curriculum for a separate medical specialty. Here are some resources for a different depth levels of this rabbit hole:
Basic level: https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/risk-factors/risk-factors.html
Moderate to deep:
Obesity Pillars journal (open access) https://www.sciencedirect.com/journal/obesity-pillars
decent book: Handbook of Obesity 4th edition Vol 1 by George A. Bray and Claude Bouchar, available free on Anna’s Archive or can be bought on Amazon
Too deep (mostly for medical professionals) and more expensive: Course of lectures at Columbia university: https://www.ihn.cuimc.columbia.edu/education/continuing-medical-education-cme/columbia-cornell-obesity-medicine
Thank you for the detailed reply.
The CDC link was brief as you indicated.
The CME lectures I can't afford.
I'll grab the handbook and look over it.
You are welcome. I liked the book and it has relatively recent info. Combining it with Obesity Pillars articles, you can get a very good understanding of modern views on pathophysiology of obesity.
I took a brief look over the handbook, every chapter, and especially the chapters on nutrition and metabolism
I think there are some major gaps that a more updated version of the handbook should cover, such as the previously mentioned carbohydate-insulin model of obesity https://hackertalks.com/post/7617450
If you have time I would highly recommend the ketogenic handbook: the science of therapeutic carbohydrate restriction - https://shop.elsevier.com/books/ketogenic/noakes/978-0-12-821617-0 - it is also available online at the usual places.
While the text isn't focused on obesity it makes a compelling through line between metabolic syndrome, hyperinsulinemia, and the conditions the obesity handbook has associated with obesity.
I did enjoy the opening quote about obesity: To treat obesity, Hippocrates, the “father of medicine,” suggested the following:
[o]bese people and those desiring to lose weight should perform hard work before food. Meals should be taken after exertion and while still panting from fatigue and with no other refreshment before meals except only wine, diluted and slightly cold. Their meals should be prepared with sesame or seasoning and other similar substances and be of a fatty nature as people get thus, satiated with little food. They should, moreover, eat only once a day and take no baths and sleep on a hard bed and walk naked as long as possible. - Precope J. Hippocrates on Diet and Hygiene. 1952.
In this quote we have :
Oh I'm very much aware my lower calories play a huge factor in my weight loss, probably moreso then keto itself but my energy levels are actually higher on Leto then when I was eating carbs. After meals I would be slow and sluggish, wanting a nap. Now with no carbs and increased fat intake, I wake up earlier, feel energized right away and have next to no issues in my daily tasks or wanting random naps throughout the day.
Keto has made me feel physically better all around and the fats are much easier to process then carbs. No question about that. I do eat more frequently though.
my wife cannot lose weight with anything even close to a simple carb. She can have high fiber veg in her diet and super low sugar fruit (lemon, lime, avocado) but that is it. fat and protein seem to not be an issue. she does have low thyroid though.
Does this mean she is finding success avoiding carbs? If she is having trouble I recommend getting a CGM and using the biofeedback to keep the line flat - it's an amazing diet tool and I cannot recommend it enough.
some but not enough. She has only had significant results from extreme things like a medical liquid diet she was on and the cabbage soup one. even then going back to anything approaching a normal diet, even with low calories, results in gain. She also has medical issues that make to much fat or things like cabbage I think because of sulfur content. We actually have this annoying thing where her thyroid tests have her in normal range but just barely into it and she has symptoms of low like the weight, being cold, hair loss, dry skin, puffy face, etc. but the doctor won't increase her thyroid prescription but is giving her one for those new weight loss drugs (which are more expensive and not working for her). We are american so a non functional medical system is par for the course.
I just made a post about the carbohydrate-insulin model of obesity https://hackertalks.com/post/7617450 it might be helpful for her.
If she can tolerate a ketogenic diet that might be a option to explore.
unfortunately fat is an issue with her liver. She tends to have to do high protein, high fiber.
glad your finding success with keto!