The thing that drives me nuts about the lab leak theory is that it absolutely should be investigated as a possible avenue for COVID's origin, but not because of some nefarious conspiracy theory. It should be investigated to determine whether or not there was a protocol breach, or perhaps an oversight in lab procedures, that could point to the need for greater safety in infectious disease labs. Remember, Wuhan, like all infectious disease labs, follows the same protocols as most other similar labs, including those in the United States. If there are lapses in safety and/or oversight, everyone should know and take the appropriate steps to mitigate that.
this post was submitted on 19 Apr 2025
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they prolly did investigate in 2021 before china announced that the virus likely originated from wet markets
I mean, the website they link to is cancer. But the theory isn't all that crazy. Scientists still haven't been able to find a link between covid and any illness in bats, or any other species, so they're looking to alternatives now, and this is one of them. Not completely stupid considering ground zero was literally in a city where a lab doing this exact kind of gain of function research was located. Coincidence, maybe, but its not crazy to consider.
An origin theory pointing to manmade sources alone was never the problem. Using that idea to avoid doing things to protect the public was and still is. If someone like Trump starts shouting "hey, look over there!", you better look where he's not pointing, as he's all about distraction.
I would agree. Their refusal to get on messaging with wearing masks and getting vaccinated was annoying as fuck and killed people.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4797993/
This was a very on the nose publication 4 years before the covid-19 outbreak started. Further the viral genome doesn't show any sign of genetic modification which leaves various genomic signatures. Stop pushing conspiracy theories unless you have actual proof.
Republican "scientists" pushing this theory are as trustworthy as oil and gas "scientists" denying manmade climate change.
I'm not pushing a conspiracy theory. It's idiotic to dismiss stuff out of hand.
Edit: The article is literally about the lab leak theory. Otherwise I wojldnt have even mentioned it. My point is its bad science to just say it's a crackpot theory, and dig your heels in on. Is it unlikely that it came from a lab? Yes, most scientist's agree it is. But again, not the point.
In the 5y since the pandemic started no proof of a lab leak has turned up. The existence of these covid viruses was already known in the nearby bat population and even zoonosed to humans a few times.
This is entirely contrary to your false claims that scientists couldn't find a link between animals and covid. So yes, it is the point. Lableak was a theory at the start one I even hypothesized myself. However, the data has consistently shown otherwise so unless new data gives the hypothesis any credence it is only political propaganda to give any credibility to the leak theory.
I think the intercept did a good story on the lab leak theory. It's more broadly focused on gain of function research. you can read the transcript or listen to the podcast here
The Intercept has been consistent for years about not declaring it case closed prematurely
It’s idiotic to dismiss stuff out of hand.
For stuff without any supporting evidence, that's not idiotic, it's the correct thing to do.
Yes. The theory is crazy.
And you sound crazy for peddling it
Edit: Literally only the republican "scientists" think it came from a lab. Actual scientists believe it was not.
So yeah. You sound crazy. Here's the democrats final report that states you sound crazy for peddling thier lies
I don't care what democrats say. This isn't a political thing. It's a science thing. It either came from a lab, or it came from somewhere else. We will likely never know the actual origin of it. And if you're outright excluding a possibility, then you're just as dogmatic as the Republicans.
Ok. It's only political because one party backs truth while the other keeps shouting conspiracy theories.
Have you read the democratic side? Actual scientists saying if anything, it came from a market after a wild bat gave it to a wild animal.
The only reason it can kinda look like it came from a lab is because there was a lab nearby. But the actual scientific report says the strand it too unlike the lab strand to have actually come from a lab.
Stop sounding crazy and read the truth
Is that what the science actually say? Because I remember during the early COVID reading a research paper publish 6 months prior to the outbreak by Wuhan Lab studying the exact same thing.
Ok. Well my proof is from 5 months ago. Where's yours?
Proof from the democratic party isn't proof, they're also corrupt and take lobbyist cash. There's also reason to believe the ties between the US and China specifically researching these kinds of viruses in a lab in the same area as where the outbreak started is very suspicious and more reason to not believe the "old power" in the US.
Not that Trump and Co is any better, they want to topple the old power to bring about even worse things.
It's not the democrats who are doing the tests and saying it wasn't from a lab; it is scientists. Democrats are just saying the scientists are right
Republicans themselves are calling themselves scientists and saying it was from a lab.
See the difference yet?
Stop peddling conspiracy theories.
Right we should just listen to bad actors unquestionably, it's working out great for Maga.
It's not the democrats saying it. It's scientists. Democrats are just saying to listen to scientists.
Are you really this dense?
And big oil paid scientists for years to claim lead in gasoline was fine actually and the government nodded along in agreement.
Or that AIDS wasn't that bad because it csn only effect homosexuals.
Or that there were WMDs in Iraq.
Sorry there's plenty of reasons to question govt narratives.
And all those lies were peddled by the same side that says the virus started in a lab
Thank you for proving me more correct
The democrats didn't argue with any of those
Yes they did
They didn't, FDRs admin pushed leaded gasoline (though his presidency was obviously good in many other ways)
Most democrats didn't push for HIV/AIDS research and funding until many years after it became clearly an issue.
And https://truthout.org/articles/democrats-share-the-blame-for-tragedy-of-iraq-war/ most didn't argue with the reasoning for the Iraq War.
The first one is a lie. Just so much was going on he couldn't stop the republicans from going forward with leaded gas
The second one doesn't make and sense. They werent fighting for HIV help when HIV wasn't a problem. We'll yeah it wasn't a problem yet! But once it actually became a problem the democrats were pretty quick to try to jump to help before the 80s was over. Being mainly held back by, yup, Republicans.
And the last one just makes you an asshole. How dare democrats have some patriotism after the biggest attack on the country. Literally most everyone was for the war at first, and if you weren't you were anti American. And who spread the sentiment around? You know it was Republicans. After the wave of blind patriotism was over who was opposed to the Iraqi invasion?
From the article you posted
on Meet the Press in 2007, Biden defended his false claims about Iraqi WMDs by falsely insisting that “everyone in the world thought he had them. The weapons inspectors said he had them.”
So when Bush (a Republican) pushed for the war, it was pretty controversial to go against it cause you were pretty un patriotic. But did the majority of democrats vote for it any way? No! The vote was 296-133
126 democrats, 6 republicans, and one independent voted against it. So, it seems again the democrats were on the "better" side.
But keep acting like they're the same.
I don't think there's much of a point in continuing this discussion because you continue to make up excuses for the democratic parties failings.
You don't seem to understand that I am simply wanting to push the democratic party to be more proactive and progressive rather then reacting to Republicans (frequently nodding along in agreement for a while until finally getting with reality).
I never once claimed the two parties were the same, that's simply your assumption to my healthy skepticism with either parties company line.
If you think the democrats are squeeky clean, you're misinformed and are unintentionally helping to erode our democracy.
Calling out prior misdeeds from democrats while fighting for better options is not supporting Republicans and the hive mind bullshit from Democrats is what helped get us here and ensured the Biden administration and it's failures occurred. They failed (predictably) to prevent this from occurring by refusing to fight for the people. "oh the parlimentsrisn said we can't do that" "oh woops Marijuana is still schedule 1" "sure the covid era safety net helped raise hundreds of thousands of children from poverty but we can't be fucked to fight to continue them" "oh no roe v wade is overturned, better vote for us so we can still do fuck all"
Idk man, wake the fuck up, the Republicans are obviously far worse, but if we can't expect more from our supposed good party, what the fuck do you think is going to happen? Exactly what did, less people voted, voter rights laws backsliding, there is evidence of election tampering by the Republicans (big surprise they always scream the loudest about the shit they're doing or planning to do) etc etc. Much of this could have been prevented if the democratic party had any fucking backbone to fight for what they claim to believe in.
No, all this happened because of people like you who fracture the democratic position.
The republican side can do no wrong to their voters. They can push for whatever and still get everyone on their side to vote for them.
Meanwhile, people like you need the party to be perfect to vote for them. People like you yell the loudest about how your not happy with the democratic leaders not being perfect so it causes others to also not vote, even though they didn't look into what actually happened.
You all and your pursuit of a perfect left candidate allowed the right to be facist, because they saw all the in fighting between us and just kept stepping right
You grow the fuck up
Jesus christ.
https://blogs.millersville.edu/thesnapper/2024/11/22/bernie-sanders-has-been-betrayed-by-the-democratic-party/ Inform yourself, the democratic party has specifically killed progressive candidates chances by funding their opponents (including republican candidates)
They've failed to implent policy after policy they promised/campaigned on. Do you ever wonder why? Probably not because you think it's the lefts fault clearly.
Which they love to do instead of admitting their own failings. https://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-blames-bernie-sanders-but-not-reason-lost-2016-2020-1
Hell they helped boost trump specifically https://observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-reveals-dnc-elevated-trump-to-help-clinton/
But sure, keep blaimg the left for wanting better, we'll continue to see how that plays out.
As long as they refuse to make large scale change that the population can see improves their lives, they will continue to see voter apathy for their party and emboldening of the right wing psychos.
Yes. Bernie would have been perfect. Every one sees that.
But your refusal to have anything less than perfect be your representative put us in the hole we are in now.
Nobody is saying the democrats are perfect. Not once have I said that here. But I was willing to compromise to stop the actual facism at our door step. Now it's run rampant and you are still saying the perfect candidate would have done better
Everyone young wants Bernie. But only having the young vote will never win you an election.
So yes. You and your loud mouth are way more responsible for this that any democrat
That was one of the weakest bothsides attempts I've seen in months.
It's not even a both sides, I'm simply stating facts.
Blindly believing either political party because it aligns moreso with you is foolish, you should seek why they say the things they do and find potential conflicts of interest. By which unfortunately a large amount of democrats are entrenched in donor and lobbyist cash.
Again it's no contest that the Republicans are far worse and I have never advocated for voting for those ghouls. I've also voted Democrat in midterms and presidential elections consistently since I was old enough to do so. Not that it matters much living in a deep south state.
I consistency have advocated to my friends and family that they need to ote Democrat because they are absolutely the lesser of the two evils, but it'd be great if the party would get the fuck out of the way and let progressive policy actually bring us into a better future. Yet all I've seen is the party bashing the progressives and being ineffectual themselves in preventing the rise of fascism in our country.
2018 - June : Discovery of Novel Bat Coronaviruses in South China That Use the Same Receptor as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29669833/
They published this paper , they were studying the virus family, in the lab , in the city that it first detected from. A lab knowing for not being up to code, have concern of Chinese government using it to work on biological weapons, among other things.
At the end it doesn't matter if it is from a lab or not and I am not sure why people get very offended by it. I understand if the cheesiness government tried to hide it, but people in the state calling people conspiracy theorist for suggestion that is crazy.
Yes, and further studies have shown that the strains in the lab and the strain that became Covid 19 were too different to have come from the same place.
We're calling people conspiracy theorists because they're peddling a conspiracy theory.
the strains in the lab and the strain that became Covid 19 were too different to have come from the same place
do you have the research for that ?
Literally the proof I posted earlier from 5 months ago
The US Government Report ?? that mainly talk about the involvement of the USA cooperation with Wuhan lab, and searching for strain in the document doesnt bring anything useful to your claim??
I was expecting at least a EU research or WHO reports explaining why "the strains are not the same" or a peer review article not something from the US government that politicized the whole thing that people are label conspiracy theorist for pointing out clear concern..
The report is riddled with sources that aren't government based. It's filled with scientific data.
Again, it's just democrats saying listen to the scientists.
I really don't understand why you defending this report like it is a religions text when they have written in bold font
"Republicans’ Investigation Did Not Uncover the Origins of COVID-19—Both Pathways Remain Plausible, and We Are More or Less Where We Started"
They report even conclude with details of what it is about. 1) baseless attack by republican against Fauci 2) misconduct regarding New York nursing homes 3) CDC’s school reopening guidance
All of which have nothing to do with "Proof that covid was not a leak because the strain are different"
Like even reading further they literary say the same thing as I am saying:
the origins of COVID-19 are unknown. A zoonotic origin and lab accident are both plausible, as is a “hybrid” scenario reflecting a mixture of the two. It was repeatedly explained to the Select Subcommittee that all prior epidemics and pandemics, as well as almost all prior outbreaks, have zoonotic origins. At the same time, a lab origin for COVID-19 also remains plausible. Although arguments for a lab origin are largely circumstantial, they cannot and should not be dismissed out of hand. However, one thing that nearly all witnesses who testified on this issue agreed upon was that without greater transparency from the Chinese Communist Party, it will be difficult, if not impossible, to know the origins of COVID-19.
Good job cherry picking
A regional center for studying potential pandemic viruses studies a virus detected in its region. This is utterly unprecedented. /s
If that lab were doing CBW research, it would never have been publishing in open international journals.
Believe me, I wouldn't put it past the CCP to have been lying or attempting a cover-up.
But lab-grown virus is readily distinguishable from virus in the wild, and that was looked into by non-Chinese researchers early in the pandemic. That's why I think it's highly unlikely covid escaped from a lab. It is much more likely that the specific host and specific location where cross-species infection took place has not been identified. That takes both extensive fieldwork and luck.
Also, talking about liars: the first Trump administration went through all kinds of contortions to try to hang the blame on China, for obvious propaganda point-scoring reasons. So the fact that the Trump flunkies are still parroting that line lends zero credibility to the theory.
gain of function research
Are you referring to the actual research, or to the right-wing screeching pattern based on the same set of words?
Considering it is one thing but the right is outright saying it's either the most likely cause or the cause of the outbreak. I'm willing to consider food additives and other processing methods to be contributors to autism but I wouldn't say it's a "possible cause" when there are only vague correlations to that effect.
This guy should be more careful with that gigantic virus in his hands ... imagine that virus reproducing in your body - - that's my own conspiracy theory 🤣
No, it really doesn't get you credit as a free thinker. It's been comprehensively debunked.
MRI is responsible for the deaths of millions.
Great, let's see some peer-reviewed research to back up that bizarre claim.