this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2025
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[–] [email protected] 7 points 20 hours ago

The problem with the statement from the title is that a non-violent movement that big won't happen in many countries, or sometimes won't happen without turning violent. Both should be accounted for when talking about this.

I've been fed up with logic, common sense and such as opposed to stats at some point, because I was mostly reading ancap stuff and ancaps are a bit too detached in that direction.

But it's rightfully said often that throwing stats is just another kind of lies. Interpreting statistics is too complex, most people can't do that, common sense and logic are indeed more important.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Non-violent protests still need to come with a credible threat of becoming violent if the protesters' safety is being attacked or if their human rights are compromised.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

It's a social contract basically: we will be peaceful as long as you allow us to remain peaceful.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That statistic only works if the government cares what we think. Voters have trained politicians that they can do whatever they want with no repercussions. Therefore, they do not need to care what we think.

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[–] [email protected] 60 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Tell that to Hong Kong demonstrators on June 16, 2019, estimated by organizers at 2 million people marching. Hong Kong had a population of 7.5 million at the time.

Sure there was violence both before and after that protest, but mostly caused by violent crackdown by police.

But did it fail because there was violence or was violence a sign of stronger opposition? Causation vs correlation and all that.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Maybe they needed 3.5% of China? Since the repression was imposed from outside of the city its happening in a larger context than just the local demographics.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Hong Kong wasn’t at or above 3.5% of Chinese population

[–] [email protected] 4 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

I think we’re all aware. And Hong Kong isn’t (wasn’t) China in terms of governance(“one country, two systems”). China broke the deal it made with UK, which said Hong Kong would be autonomous until 2048, after which it would be incorporated into China.

But you’re right, not much to do when China claims authority and no one defends its right to free speech, democracy and autonomy.

Edit: added some need nuance on the “one country, two systems”.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 day ago

Considering the UK's biggest export is independence days, it's kind of hard to think that all of those were solved through non violent means.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Hong Kong wasn’t at or above 3.5% of Chinese population

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[–] [email protected] 70 points 1 day ago (13 children)

So how do you keep the police from making it violent?

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[–] [email protected] 83 points 1 day ago (13 children)

American Revolution. French Revolution. Iranian Revolution.

Just a few very violent, and successful, revolutions.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

sure, BBC. tell us how youd like us to express our dissatisfaction.

the fact msm is doing this so desperately rn 🤔

[–] [email protected] 4 points 22 hours ago

The MSM just fear an orange reprisal. They're also pandering to the middle of the ground voters.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 day ago

there has to be a big ass asterisk on his post. generally things like the civil rights movement got partially undone and then success can be nebulous since even in a movement there are subset of goals that might not have been achieved

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