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concentration camps and millions being stripped of health insurance and food assistance
So like Gaza?
Because I'm pretty sure this was the logic for people who refused to vote that this very community spent an entire year assuring me was a bunch of tankie bots from ml.
There were a million reasons that people didn't show for Harris. Why do you scold only the people who were outspoken against genocide? Can you point to any evidence that this issue swung the election?
Biden put Harris in a terrible position by holding out as long as he did. Then Harris ran a horrendous campaign. That is why she lost.
People who care about Gaza are people who are politically engaged. That not who stayed home. Politically engaged people vote third party when they want to protest, and third party votes did not sway this election. Not even close.
People who stay home are normies who have given up. A lot of people need inspiration to show up, and centrist Democrats just aren't inspiring.
I can only suppose that your fixation on the genocide issue is because you like the genocide and were pissed off that people objected to it. That's the only reason to bring this trash up in every damn conversation about the Trump administration.
The majority of people who didn't vote for Harris don't care about Gaza. They're just larping on the internet.
She wasn't a zionist and wanted to end the war. It was a clear cut decision, but it was a brown and black sacrifice people were willing to make for their moral purity.
I was ready to demand my Lefty comrades go vote for Kamala: after all, one Genocide is better than two genocides.
But then she came out "tough on the border" and took that from me. She promised to be every bit as hard as Trump.
https://theweek.com/politics/kamala-harris-immigration-policy-mexico-border
But she worked HARD to alienate the Left. She took every piece of rhetoric I had and shat on it.
So we have Kamala caving on Gaza with rhetoric (and walking it back)
But flatly refusing to do anything:
Just like the Liberal Party. Promise almost nothing, make a symbolic gesture, do actually nothing.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/harris-gaza
So when she gets no support, why are Clinton Neoliberal, Reaganomics-poisoned-but-polite Liberals surprised? This is the Country they designed, on purpose.
She wasn't a zionist and wanted to end the war
Citation? Because any time I saw anything indicating that, she IMMEDIATELY walked it back. And I've cited (shitty) sources.
I dug through my comment history to find this. It has plenty of links.
I read it. Democrats will keep playing the left for fools and moving to the right, no matter what happens.
No Bernie's campaign and Warren's campaign drove Biden to the left on a whole host of issues, including labor unions.
There was no daylight between her and Biden on Netanyahu’s genocide.
Don't lie.
This comment said it best and lists calls for a ceasefire from Harris.
https://lemmy.world/comment/13069715
She’s taken a stance, multiple times. The left doesn’t want to hear it.
March - https://www.npr.org/2024/03/04/1234822836/kamala-harris-benny-gantz-gaza-cease-fire-israel-hamas
July - https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/25/harris-netanyahu-israel-cease-fire-00171315
Harris promised to do everything in her power to end the war in Gaza.
“This year has been difficult, given the scale of death and destruction in Gaza and given the civilian casualties and displacement in Lebanon, it is devastating. And as president, I will do everything in my power to end the war in Gaza, to bring home the hostages, end the suffering in Gaza, ensure Israel is secure, and ensure the Palestinian people can realise their right to dignity, freedom, security and self-determination,” Harris said to applause during a rally in East Lansing city of Michigan, home to 200,000 Arab Americans.
Unlike Biden, Harris was not a life long Zionist.
When Joe Biden met with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his war cabinet during his visit to Israel, the U.S. president assured them: “I don’t believe you have to be a Jew to be a Zionist, and I am a Zionist.”
Harris wasn't perfect. And that was simply not good enough for some people who didn't want to risk their hands getting dirty. Even if it meant the Palestinians becoming the cost of doing business.
I voted for Harris and the election is over. That doesn’t mean I’m going to pretend that she wasn’t as committed to Netanyahu’s genocide as Biden was.
Good for you. I appreciate it. No need to spread propaganda though.
Thank you for the well reasoned response.
Here is my Issue:
When the Harris campaign did nothing to add teeth to the promise of a ceasefire (such as cutting off the weapons for the genocide would have done)? It comes off as just another empty gesture.
"Ben, stop the fighting! I mean it! we really need this to stop! I mean it!"
Only in the final final week before the election did I find any hope of cutting off weapons shipments. I had to dig, I had to scrounge, I had to be plugged in all day, every day, and trust political tabloids to maybe have it right this time, even as they referenced hints and leaked memos that the reader just had to trust existed.
Evidence was sparse, hard to find, and hard to trust.
Meanwhile, the sale of Palestinian Land https://wagingnonviolence.org/2025/01/activists-infiltrate-israeli-events-selling-palestinian-land-in-us/ Continues unabated. We see the incentive even beyond the "manifest destiny" style ideology, we see material gain for Israel to continue as long as ammo will last.
And rather than break from Joe, she wanted to be seen as AIPAC as honoring his commitments. She had a long history of supporting Israel. Publicly. Loudly. Even as that foreign-state's lobby backed people far to her right in both parties. https://theintercept.com/2024/10/24/aipac-spending-congress-elections-israel/
This information was widely available. Easily accessible. Why would I trust someone who wants AIPAC campaign money to share my values when I don't even see her articulating them in any meaningful way?
There was no daylight between her and Biden on Netanyahu’s genocide.
Don't lie.
You may have missed the "No daylight, kid." thing it seems.
I see stuff like this and laugh. It would seem that most Americans, Democrats in particular, cling to the notion that they will have a chance to vote again. If there are midterms or another full election, they will be rigged the same as Russia, North Korea or any other "strongman" dictatorship. Keyboard warriors won't make a whit of difference.
It's one of the only things we have left to do so we better hope it makes a difference.
The right never gets any shit for using their key boards to advocate for murdering us all and it seems pretty effective for them.
You voted though, right? For Harris? That’s the only correct answer.
Non voters + Trump voters + Jill Stein voters brought us into this mess. I haven’t heard anything from Jill Stein, as a leader I hope she’s speaking out too to her base. ~~
No it was the democrats who put a candidate forward so uninspiring and indifferent on many different issues that people didn't vote for her.
People didn't want come that had no stance against the genocide and was different from biden.
No it was people who didn't want to vote for Kamala Harris. Everyone who doesn't work at the DNC needs to learn that lesson. Everyone who works at the DNC has a different set of lessons to learn. Like be a socialist and abandon neoliberalism.
The fact that we had a choice of someone other than Biden was incredible from a political standpoint. It's laughable more people weren't jumping at the chance to elect the candidate who wasn't a lifelong, diehard Zionist.
As a proud supporter of Claudia de la Cruz, I'm sure you'll be pleased to know she hasn't given up her flight: https://www.instagram.com/1claud9/, https://pslweb.org/
I am seriously tired of hearing this shit, what point does that matter now? Are you going to change the election? Move forward, we can't do anything about how people voted now and it's just alienating and irritating people.
"Look, I know that these people voted for you and yours to suffer, but you just need to get over that so that we can come together and be a happy family again. You not getting over that one little tiny bump in our past just alienates everyone that wanted to see your life destroyed. It was a tiny blip from our past. Just get over it already." ~You....for the most part.
People needed to vote for the not fascist candidate in a choice between a not fascist candidate and a fascist candidate.
It's not hard. Learn the lesson or die to fascists. People will be too dead to be alienated.
Okay. Got anything other than time travel as a solution? If not, I need you to get the fuck off the internet, go talk to some neighbors, and do a moral-action to save some neighbors lives.
Is that moral action a crime? Depends on who you ask, which state you're in, and how you choose to do it.
I recommend dragging a full-sized cross in front of an immigrant's door as ICE tries to raid. On camera. In Los Angeles. With bible verses burned into the wood about "love your neighbor" from KJV. Even if you have to make the cross yourself.
Maybe you'll get a good photo op for the movement, maybe you'll psychologically break a gestapo or four.
I'm sure you have other ideas.
If we have another election vote in it. Vote for the Democrat candidates. Fill out the ballot with a pen. No larping fan fiction necessary.
You're fight, people don't like hearing about the consequences of their own actions. They like sitting comfortably, pretending they did what they could to stop it
To remind people that their actions have consequences and that they need to take an active role in the democratic process if they want to preserve it.
Yup, and the whole “she wasn’t a squeaky clean and perfect candidate for me so I couldn’t vote for her in good conscience” sounds like such a fucking dumb argument in the face of what we’ve seen the other guy has done/will do.
And to the user you replied to: yes, it doesn’t do anything to change reality, but points like this should be noted so hopefully people learn. You vote so a piece of shit like Mango Mussolini doesn’t get to power and dismantle the U.S. government.
P.S. I proudly voted for Kamala Harris
BUT WAIT, THERE IS MORE!
I’m definitely taking a dump on that bitch Virginia Fox’s grave when she dies and you know it’ll be soon cuz she’s an elderly, geriatric, expiring, old bitch.
And the worst part?
They probably sleep sounder than you.
We need to be thinking about how 77 million Americans voted for Trump and thought that was a good idea.
And we need to work out how to prevent it from happening again.
One thing is clear, billionaires and politicians are unwilling to relinquish power or wealth, even when their holdings are obscene or they are incapable of governing.
We will have to threaten either their lives or the structures on which their holdings depend, and can't bluff. And they will likely choose death over surrender.
We won't prevent it until people learn to start talking to each other with compassion instead of hostility. As it stands, both sides think the other side is completely insane, and to some extent violent, and that they should not be associated with unless you are harassing them.
We've already burned the whole bridge down, and now need to rebuild it somehow. If republicans and democrats were separated geographically they might just split the country in two, but as it stands nearly every state has a large population of both, so in my opinion the only way forward is reconciliation.
As it stands, both sides think the other side is completely insane, and to some extent violent
Um, is it at all relevant that one side literally is insane, or that one side commits 99% of the violence? Where is the Democrats alligator Alcatraz for Christians? Where are the Democratic brown-shirt vigilantes running around with masks kidnapping people?
I think Republicans are insane and violent because I see it with my own eyes. Are we supposed pretend their not? Screw that, I'd rather punch a Nazi.
We won't prevent it until people learn to start talking to each other with compassion instead of hostility.
You can't empathize with literal fascist... For two parties to reach common ground there has to be an assumption of both parties bargaining in good faith. If you continue to do that with fascist, people end up in camps.
As it stands, both sides think the other side is completely insane, and to some extent violent, and that they should not be associated with unless you are harassing them.
Well.... In the last 30 years, how many mass casualties events have been perpetrated by liberal or leftist extremist? You can't falsely conflate "both sides" when only one has a well recorded history of violence.
There is no common ground when the side you want people to compromise with wants to put me and my family in a prison camp.
We've already burned the whole bridge down, and now need to rebuild it somehow. If republicans and democrats were separated geographically they might just split the country in two, but as it stands nearly every state has a large population of both, so in my opinion the only way forward is reconciliation.
Conservatism isn't an ethnicity....... It's a dangerous ideology that should have been stamped out during reconstruction after the last civil war. But people like you had the great idea of compromising reconstruction with reconciliation, so now we have to stomp it to death once again.
I'm ex republican. Higher education and having my life ripped apart by our state's AG fixed me... barely. Compassion won't fix these people. They fucking suck to their core and would rather die than change their opinions. I don't have a good solution. Platforming the stupid in our country is a large part of the problem.
I guess you make a good point that dire situations often change minds. That might be the more likely thing to happen than people having conversations again, unfortunately.
It's such a hard topic to discuss because everyone has varying exposure to how much ground empathy can gain. After living it, I can say that they are more lost than most people think.
So start treating them the way they will treat you. Personally I'll leave someone to die if they have a Trump sticker/flag/hat/etc, because they would do the same to me.
