this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2023
1413 points (99.6% liked)

Technology

68567 readers
4716 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related news or articles.
  3. Be excellent to each other!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
  10. Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] thisisawayoflife@lemmy.world 174 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Should be 1gbps asymmetric now, with a near future goal of 1gbps symmetric.

[–] thantik@lemmy.world 148 points 1 year ago (11 children)

I'd be okay with 200mbps symmetric, with a future goal of 1gbps symmetric. More than ANYTHING, I'm tired of providers providing things like 1gbps down, 10mbps up. And then doing shit like "Here's you're 1gbps plan with a 1tb data cap!"

[–] Uprise42@artemis.camp 19 points 1 year ago (7 children)

The asymmetrical aspect of cable will be here to stay. Fiber can do it because it was build on a different foundation.

Copper cable transmits data using electric signals in various frequencies. There are a batch of frequencies reserved for phone and TV. ALL of the tv programming is constantly streamed to your lines whether you have TV or not and whether you pay for it or not. It’s encrypted and is only decrypted by your cable boxes when your provider says they can decrypt it. The phone frequencies are reserved so you can make phone calls and still max out your download.

So what about the rest of the bandwidth? Well, way back in the early days of cable it was pretty much everyone for themselves. Every company did things its own way. That’s where DOCSIS came in. It’s a platform that allows modem manufacturers to make modems that will work on any cable network that supports Docsis. And the key part is that DOCSIS is always backwards compatible. The network upgrade to 3.1 did not break the old d2 devices.

When it was developed the download was extremely more necessary than the upload. You’d be sending small single line commands on upload and receiving entire files in download. So more frequencies went to download than upload. In a lab setting 1.0 could reach 40mbps down and 10 up. That’s not what was sold because real life isn’t a lab and there’s loss over large distances. Realistically most people got 10 mb down and upload wasn’t even listed.

Whats changed? Well today those same download and upload frequencies are still used. We’ve added more around them to deliver higher speeds. But we’ve also kept the same principles that people need more download than upload. Docsis 3.1 was released in 2013. We really didn’t start stressing over upload until Covid and work from home had us on zoom calls all day.

Docsis 4.0 is technically released but requires quite a bit of overhaul to work with existing networks. We pretty much need to do away with cable tv. That’s why many ISP’s are pushing IPTv. It removes the need for all that bandwidth devoted to just TV. If everyone in a region drops traditional cable for IPTv they can easily switch to d4. D4 does increase upload but does not make it symmetrical.

Your cable company does not decide their highest tier realistically. It’s the most that medium will offer. It’s gonna be a while too for d4 to be available everywhere. Everyone would need to drop traditional cable (which is honestly a nice move regardless) and people don’t upgrade plans very often. When I worked in tech support I would frequently deal with customers complaining about slow speeds while on plans from 2002.

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] Maeve@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (7 children)

You get a terabyte cap? Jfc, where I live it’s like a few gigs, and that can cost into the hundreds for maybe 25.

[–] registrert@lemmy.sambands.net 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You guys have caps? Jfc, how do you pirate 3TB a month in pure spite of the hegemony of current year capitalism?

I shouldn't be too cocky though, I have a 40GB cap. On my phone. 😢

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments (9 replies)
[–] foggy@lemmy.world 111 points 1 year ago (3 children)

If the federal government is regulating them can we admit they're a fucking utility already and stop allowing them to gouge prices when they have more money than they could feasibly spend?

Can you imagine if we said "by 2035 every American household in our electric grid will also be connected to the internet at a speed of 1gbps"?

[–] porksoda@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I can imagine it.

I can imagine the next jerk off administration rescinding that goal in the name of private enterprise or whatever bullshit excuse they choose.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] geekworking@lemmy.world 110 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Does this really matter. We aren't getting it anyway.

The telcom/cable companies are just going to take the "broadband" money, build out a couple of neighborhoods, claim it is too hard, and then keep all the money.

They have already done it many times. Free taxpayer money with zero repercussions. Why would they do anything different.

[–] krellor@kbin.social 43 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have a lot of experience with rural broadband initiatives, and generally yes, the FCC designation sets the minimums we see in terms of new service delivery to underserved communities. I specifically worked with state and municipal entities to build grant packages to fund infrastructure and these new minimums would be a great help.

[–] KnightontheSun@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

We are between towns in western WA state stuck with 10Mb DSL service. There are a lot of us folks. After moving in (the PO said the internet was great, lol), we discovered that doing anything excessive like downloading AND streaming would not work. One thing at a time. We were able to bond two pair and get 20Mb which is workable, but that's where we sit. Gigabit service is all around us, but we'd have to trench a mile up the road and pay for that to even think about getting a provider to lay a line. Century Link outright laughed at me.

I was able to get T-Mo's home internet as a backup since we WFH, but it isn't stellar either.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 88 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I could give a shit what they call it. How about enforcing some god damn price restrictions or make data caps illegal? Speed means little otherwise

[–] lemmeout@lemm.ee 21 points 1 year ago

This actually does keep prices in check. Albeit, a bit backasswardsly.

I may be off on the specifics but it's something like: Having to offer 100mbps at the lowest rates in (poor neighborhoods) increases the speeds of each tier while keeping the price the same.

[–] TeoTwawki@lemmy.world 71 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Thats great but can we demand some decent UPLOAD to?

cries in 300down measally 10 up

[–] DeathsEmbrace@lemmy.ml 29 points 1 year ago

Upload is the biggest nobody gives a fuck in this ISP provider shit despite its importance.

[–] Qwaffle_waffle@sh.itjust.works 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

In the linked pdf, it does mention the benchmarks.

  • 2015/current standard is 25/3 Mbps.
  • Proposed increase to 100/20 Mbps.
  • Future goal is 1000/500 Mbps.
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And really, 20 mbps at the bottom tier for broadband isn't all that unreasonable. We're talking about the floor level here.

[–] privatizetwiddle@lemmy.sdf.org 14 points 1 year ago

20mbits at bottom tier would be fine, but there are currently top tier cable plans, 1gbps down and still only 10mbps up. Upload speed needs to scale at least proportionallly, if not symmetrically.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 55 points 1 year ago

Can’t wait til they give another few hundred billion to ISPs who turn it into bonuses instead of infra improvement

[–] notannpc@lemmy.world 50 points 1 year ago

As it should have been 5 years ago. Maybe even more.

[–] fne8w2ah@lemmy.world 48 points 1 year ago

5 years late but better than never.

[–] popemichael@lemmy.sdf.org 28 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I did telecom work about 5 years ago

It was shocking the amount of area that depends on a low-quality copper wire infrastructure.

I don't know if that changed in 5 years, but companies are going to have a hard time getting that replaced nationwide

[–] Zoomboingding@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

They just won't be able to call it broadband.

[–] poprocks@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We live in a rural area (but only 16 miles from the nearest city) and have copper. We really hope the infrastructure bill will bring real internet to us in our lifetime.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] WindowsEnjoyer@sh.itjust.works 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I just don't get it. Why not making upload speed same as download speed?

[–] adrian783@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

the most simple explanation is that total bandwidth is limited and more upload speed they give you the less download speed.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Redhotkurt@kbin.social 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

You might have figured it out by now, but "megabits per second" is abbreviated as "Mbps" with an uppercase m; yeah, it's kinda pedantic, but using lowercase means it's a millibit, which is much, much smaller. The same applies to "gigabits per second," which should be expressed as "Gbps."

At any rate, thank you for posting this, it really is good news. And about time they did this, too.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (16 children)

100 mbps? That's 100 millibits per second, or 0.1 bits per second. I'd certainly hope for better bandwidth than one bit every ten seconds; that's slower than smoke signals.

load more comments (15 replies)
[–] smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 1 year ago (7 children)

It should also require allowing incoming connections. Too much ISPs, especially mobile, are gives one-way Internet now. Basically like having a phone line with no phone number.

[–] SaltySalamander@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You should google "CG-NAT" and learn why mobile providers don't (and simply can't) provide you a public IP. Get yourself a cheap VPS, set up a reverse proxy, and open all the ports you want.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (6 replies)
[–] BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If I could also get 100mbps for less than $80 a month that'd be great.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] ieightpi@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Slightly off topic but I seriously hope the Dems have a good plan to tell the general public of the US, just how much Biden and his administration has done for good progressive legislation this far.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments