it sounds like israel built a bunker under a hospital, and is now bombing it because they suspect hamas is using it because they took hostages there?
The proper solution for this is to search the hospital not bomb it.
this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2023
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But then they wouldn't be able to genocide Palestinians. So not really a solution for them is it? /S
Netanyahu and his right wing govt is fucking unhinged and his intentions toward Palestinians seem to have been clear for many years from the sounds of it. Israelis needs a very different set of leaders that aren't genocidal monsters.
Why are people standing in the way of Israel solving the Palestinian problem once and for all with a final solution?! /s
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but searching it might find evidence that its not being used, and thus not give them the excuse to bomb a hospital and kill tons of people.
Which is why they didn't bomb it directly, but instead searched it. People then shifted the goal posts again and said they shouldn't be there. Also, the part they built was meant to just be a laundry room and some offices. It's not part of the tunnel network Hamas built under that.
The one we haven't seen and Israel refuses to prove in any meaningful way?
Actually they did bomb it directly and caused damage to the building. They then terrorized every patient, kidnapped 200 people to an unknown location, and THEN went in to search but of course they found no tunnel inside the hospital itself (because why on earth would a Hamas fighter put the opening there?).
Well you'll be happy to learn they are, in fact, searching it now. And part of it is the storage basement that they built themselves
Laws for thee not for me.
Yes, Hamas would use an Israeli company to build their secret bunker. That sounds very plausible indeed. Hamas is well-known to be trusting of Israelis.
Edit: I don't even think they bombed the hospital because of a bunker in the first place.
Also, a surprising number of people seem to be taking the word of an ex-Israeli PM as truth around here.
Ehud Barak: "No, decades ago, we were running the place... we helped them to build these bunkers."
Why the fuck people trust anything this liar says is beyond me. He was defense minister during the Gaza war.
That Israel built the bunker that they are claiming justifies them bombing the hospital it was under looks really bad for Israel. Why would he lie about that?
He's saying Israel built it for Hamas. That's the bullshit part.
No, he's saying Israel built it for Israel's purposes. He's claiming that Hamas has been using it (presumably since Israel pulled out of Gaza in '05). But Israel using structures it built as casus belli to blow up a hospital looks really bad on Israel's part.
I think any reason to blow up a hospital makes Israel look bad, but if I misunderstood what he meant, fair enough.
The justification is that Hamas uses hospitals for their purposes and they have bunkers and tunnels there. Why would it matter who build the bunkers? IDF is trying to destroy Hamas who uses hospital (with bunkers). Per this article the bunkers were built for hospital medical use.
Per this article the bunkers were built for hospital medical use.
I'm sure Israel would love people to think they built bunkers under a hospital for medical use.
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@MxM111 @jeena @FlyingSquid @grte Remember, it's Israel claiming what those bunkers are used for and by whom, and they are well known to lie.
Generally speaking, never trust anyone engaged in ethnic cleansing.
Unfortunately, I trust Hamas even less. However, there was an interview of a doctor who worked at this hospital, who did confirm that Hamas was using it.
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I mean, in Barak's mind he's probably attempting to justify the bombing. In a sane person's eyes it looks really bad.
Maybe that's the problem. The so-called justification just went over my head. Because it's fucking nuts. How many innocent people who were in need of hospital care did they kill? Including children? And then claim it's because Hamas uses human shields...
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No isreal built it so they'd have an excuse to genocide palestinians by claiming hamas was hiding there.
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Fascinating to read. Did you not read one line of the article that stated that Israel buildt it decades ago when they controlled Gaza?
I'm not saying I belive Israels claims of Hamas using it as a command center but let's at least get the facts straight.
Isreal built the hospital.
That doesn't mean they built a bunker for Hamas to use underneath it.
Isreal said that hamas was using the bunker.
Isreal lies to justify bombing hospitals.
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Also, a surprising number of people seem to be taking the word of an ex-Israeli PM as truth around here.
people will take what serves their agenda...
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Edit: I don't even think they bombed the hospital because of a bunker in the first place.
When did they bomb Al-Shifa Hospital?
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Literally not talking about the tunnels and bunkers shown recently which are built in Hamas style developed over the last 15 or so years.
The shafts and tunnels are built in a certain style with parts made in gaza. This is all visible.
"hamas style" is that like art Deco? Maybe art Nuevo?
You mean the place the hospital is located and constructed? Weird things in Gaza would be built in Gaza.
They use a specific type of cement piece construction they developed over time to let them build tunnels quickly for cheap. It's been documented historically and proudly by Hamas.
It's the shape of the stone arches and the smaller U shaped pieces in the shaft that tell you it wasn't Israeli built.
So a "technique" that would be easy and cheap to replicate rapidly. Is it not then suspicious it's been quite some time between raid and any amount of investigation?
Ah, glad we have an expert in primitive construction and not just that but one who's seen these tunnels in person. What's your name again so we can verify your conclusion?
Literally go watch the videos of journalists in the tunnels. Nothing will change your mind.
https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/b1xzpxbnt history of the tunnels
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_tunnel_warfare_in_the_Gaza_Strip
https://youtu.be/E7SwJtYW86U?si=TbxPd_CGqO4ahpp0
Literally go watch the footage.
https://youtu.be/W4gDfSNMRx4?si=vVvN7609vuYHRkuu
It's easy and cheap using smuggled concrete not doable in days with functional air conditioning systems.
https://youtu.be/a_n8qj8ycok?si=4uWZsaddS5KQGRxX
https://youtu.be/WUBxjB2NFMU?si=CGNkZJ0zwEDnZZh_
It takes time to disarm a possibly booby trapped tunnel and avoid potentially collapsing the buildings with civilians on top. It takes time to do an investigation of a crime scene.
Yes, isreali approved releases of ungeolocated video by approved journalists, not investigators.
We knew there were bunkers under all shifa, we knew there were tunnels under al shifa, we know both of these things because Israel used them when they controlled the hospital. What we don't have is a. Proof hamas made them, b. That is used offensively c. That there was any use prior to Israel breaking a wall down to gain access to tunnels and bunkers they admit they built.
Ditto bud, your own sources say they do not look recently used.
Literally nothing with change your delusions in reality. So I'm going to stop bothering.
It's delusional to want evidence from experts who are actually there, not from journalists who have a perverse incentive to release only what Israel allows.
Wait for things to actually be investigated before calling it proof. It's absurd to take sides during a war with evidence that's solely controlled by one party and supported only by their allies.
Wait, see. Don't trust the people who have a track record of lying about the same shit they're talking about now and that goes equally to Hamas as it does to Israel.
But you know, logic huh? Why bother, who needs that. We all know the scientific method is "trust Ted, it benefits him more than anyone but why would ted lie?"
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have targeted Gaza's biggest medical facility which it said was the site of a Hamas command center, a charge denied by the group.
Amid widespread condemnation about Israel's targeting of the hospital, CNN anchor Christiane Amanpour asked Barak if the IDF and the Israeli government had done a "good enough job of proving their claim" that there was a "major" Hamas command center and bunker under Shifa.
Barak replied "It's already been known for many years that they have a bunker that originally was built by Israeli constructors underneath Shifa," which was used as a "command post" for Hamas and as a "junction of several tunnels"
BBC Verify said that the Israeli footage appeared to have been recorded before reporters arrived and that the earlier clip showed fewer weapons which the IDF later explained was because more weaponry had been found later in the day.
BBC analysis editor Ros Atkins on November 17 said the IDF video was posted, then deleted, and reposted again, with references to an Israeli soldier held hostage removed.
"We don't know the reasons for that edit, nor how significant it is," Atkins said in the video which as of Tuesday had received 12.4 million views, adding that Israel's military "says suggestions it is manipulating the media are incorrect."
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