SulaymanF

It’s a brilliant piece of stupid propaganda. If the next democratic president tries to bring the country out of depression by undoing these dumb policies, the MAGA folks will claim that they nearly had solved the problem but that the awful democrats stopped it at the last minute before the prosperity would kick in.

This type of people exist in every generation, whether forming a mob to enforce segregation or engaging in pogroms.

Condescending and concern trolling. Nice. As if I haven’t been following the conflict for decades or spent years studying it in school or multiple trips to both Israel and Palestine and surrounding countries. Should we show our diplomas too?

I never said moral qualms are a luxury or that you have to solve things before condemning, you’re creating a strawman to beat. I said you’re trolling by pretending that you have a better solution for Palestinians and lambasting them for not following your enlightened opinion from your ivory tower. Hate cannot drive out hate, but Netanyahu’s government is certainly trying their hardest despite decades of failure. What’s going to end the cycle is for the rest of the world to call them out; for the Israeli government pursuing maximalist expansion and deprivation of human rights for millions and oppression of their own citizens. You instead mouth platitudes with your condescension and sound deeply out of touch, belying the claim that you’ve allegedly been following this conflict so closely.

It’s so easy for you to criticize from your position of comfort and privilege, but meanwhile YOU have offered no solutions other than to try knocking down everyone else. Palestinian children were dying before the attack and are dying after. Even before October 7, Gazan children were malnourished and food insecure to the point where they are shorter than Palestinians on the other side of the wall. Most had signs of PTSD even back in 2022. Spare me your phony concern trolling if you were doing nothing about it before and have no solutions except to blame victims.

I’m going to push back on that, Gazans have zero options to prevent children dying. No options at all. They can’t even send them away since Israel won’t let them out. Hamas surrendering won’t save children’s lives. They have no “best” option since even Israeli officials are saying that Arab children are a threat that must be addressed now early or later. There’s no winning against a genocidal threat. Even former PM Ehud Barak, no friend to Palestinians, said if he was born Palestinian he would have joined a terrorist organization.

They’ve discarded any hope of moral rectitude and are simply trying to win the fight in practical terms by whatever means available.

Children. Are. Dying.

Standing on principle for decades is good, but you cannot ask people to watch whole families die and do nothing. Israel shooting and killing hundreds of unarmed protestors with no consequences from the rest of the world showed that the Gandhi-style strategy will never work. You ask about effectiveness, Israel showed that they won’t allow nonviolent protest, they lock up moderate politicians and fund extremists, and make any sort of peaceful reconciliation impossible. The large majority of Israelis and Palestinians who want peace are actively blocked by the Netanyahu government. It’s nice to tell people how they should do things from the comfort of your safe home with electricity.

Read this New Yorker interview of a Hamas leader. Palestinians tried everything the “right” way. They engaged in nonviolent protest and were shot by the IDF. They went to the UN and Israel called it “diplomatic terrorism” and sanctioned the PA. They offered deep concessions to move forward on a two state solution and Netanyahu refused with no counter offer. They called for new elections and were blocked. There was really no way to left to resist Israel peacefully. The IDF was and is raping Palestinians.

“We rolled down all of the pathways to get some of our rights—not all of them. We knocked on the door of reconciliation and we weren’t allowed in. We knocked on the door of elections and we were deprived of them. We knocked on the door of a political document for the whole world—we said, ‘We want peace, but give us some of our rights’—but they didn’t let us in.” He added, “We tried every path. We didn’t find one political path to take us out of this morass and free us from occupation.”

it's still a war crime to abduct non-combatants

And yet Israel has kidnapped thousands of Palestinian children and holding them without access to lawyers or contact by their families.

There needs to be war crimes investigations and charges against both sides, and yet the US is sanctioning the international bodies that adjudicate this.

No. The attacks were originally aimed at a military base; they had no idea that a music festival was going on. The death count is roughly 300 soldiers dead and 900 civilians. By Israel’s own logic, this ratio of civilian deaths is acceptable in war. (I disagree which is why it’s wrong for both sides) Hamas claimed they were taking enemy fire from these locations, and by Israeli logic it meant that these Kibbutzim were now legitimate military targets. (Again, Israel has done this to Arab towns using the same rationale). Israel doesn’t like hoisted on their own petard.

Fatah engaged in a coup, locking up elected officials. It succeeded in West Bank and failed in Gaa. Why should those remaining officials reconcile with the people who did that coup and openly took aid from Israel to topple that democracy?

There were attempts to unify and move forward, but this is a thorny issue because they don’t trust one another. Meanwhile, Netanyahu took advantage of the division to steal more land and refuse peace negotiations .

Stealing the top comment:

See what's sad is that there could be real national security reasons for the FBI/DOJ actions, but because the pattern lately has been un-uniformed randos detaining people in the streets (and then disappearing them), I'm fresh out of benefits of the doubt for the government here.

If they're the subject of a criminal investigation, say so. If they're not, then explain why nobody has heard from these people in seemingly weeks. Are they green card holders? US citizens?

This is pathetic. Any respect I had for this group has evaporated.