witnessbolt

Yeah this is what someone posted that made me go "oh okay.. maybe.."

Anyone have either something additional, or a refutation?

Wow. It is shocking you have the lack of self awareness to criticize the messaging of having Cheney around.. but are what, ignoring on purpose the messaging in America around socialism/communism?? Totally oblivious? Yeah good luck walking around telling the average American that isn't already a leftist "yeah come join me, I'm a socialist communist!"

Do you.. not see what the right would.. do with that? Not only are you butchering the reality and history of these terms, you literally make the world black and white in exactly a way that benefits MAGA?

But I'm supposed to believe you are arguing in good faith? I've made some mistakes in this convo but jfc this is egregious.

So.. I don't realllly believe it.

But I'll be honest, I've had this lingering thought in the back of my head that Elon was going to try to screw everybody. He and Peter Thiel aren't exactly like, best buds, even if they both are working to overthrow democracy.

Because I already have similar thoughts, this is gonna nag at me too.

1. 100% stand by my initial statement that you are genuinely an idiot to dismiss the legitimacy of how badly propaganda & bots have fucked us up.

2. after reviewing your comment history, I edited that out (after you posted). I take this statement back.

3. WHAT ACTUAL criticism do you have besides continuing to vaguely attack the democrats and whine they campaigned with Cheney -- which I already said they went too HAM into. But I also wouldn't exile her entirely.

You ignored the question... and continued to make attacks that have no actual end result/point to the convo you claim to be trying to have. That's why they're in bad faith.

Again. Re read #3 because I've already said it multiple times. Do you have any actual other point than that besides "dems & Cheney bad?" That's what I've been trying to get to.

I am wrong on the Fox News viewership and conflating it with specific numbers.

However, I'm not going to pretend the prevalence of Fox News being turned on in many businesses, hospitals, etc, and the internet also sharing clips of it (and being repeated places like edit: Joe Rogan. I'm tired, k?) isn't relevant to the convo.

Also Facebook working with Cambridge Analytica, the Trump campaign, & others to tailor their algorithms to target Americans and influence the election.

Because you just said that Americans were tired with the "liberal" way of things. What liberal way of things?

"Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property, and equality before the law."

I mean.. you have to go beyond socialism into communism to not think that some form of capitalism should exist. And I'm not saying I'm not on board with SOME of that, but you're kind of driving my point home that you're just... saying shit.

I'm a basically a fuckin' socialist you turd. That's part of why I've been asking "what the hell are you talking about" this whole time when I've addressed the Cheney point MULTIPLE times, which was your only real complaint until you kept attacking random shit. (However I do ultimately appreciate having taking the time to review a couple things you made me double check so I'm not repeating them again... just kinda lame it took your attitude of wanting to attack with once again... seeming no real end goal.. to get that)

Once again: if you're more angry that even Liz Cheney went "oh fuck this is bad I'll say something" and the democrats embraced that... than the fact we literally have a CEO dictator flagrantly going against the courts & constitution and deporting legal immigrants.. idk what the fuck to tell you. Being more mad at the system than the actual Nazis taking power is speechlessly stupid in my eyes. I have repeatedly said in past comments that we wouldn't be in this situation if the system itself wasn't broken, and I have never defended it.

Forest. For. The. Fucking. Trees.

A straight up Moldbug bootlicker. Get bent. No monarchies, no Kings, in America.

Every statement you've made has been in bad faith, purely attempting to derail the argument and make readers glaze their eyes over.

You're doing it now, even in this response.

You're just hand waving things and saying all things are equal. I'm sure the $160 million from cryptobros and $250+? million from Elon made no difference at all. I'm sure Elon's $1m fake-raffles to convince people to vote didn't make a difference. Fox News is watched by 60% of the country. Got a similar stat for a "leftist" program you can show is like actually propaganda?

Bet you'll argue that because we were imperial, we should let Russia and China be imperial and conquer Taiwan/Ukraine too?

No, the NEOliberal status quo. We have never been a leftist nation. Our Overton window is very far to the right. Bernie is like a single step to the left of the center. Check out any other major democracy.

Part of this entire argument we are having HINGES on the fact that many corporate donors are basically conservatives even if slightly "socially liberal".. cause their money comes first. That even, they too, focus on. Both the neocons and neolibs have maintained this order since the 60s until MAGA came along to reshape the presidency into a "CEO dictator."

You're basically telling me to choose MY words carefully. Right back at ya, buddy. Attacking "liberal"ism is straight kremlin propaganda.

You, the tech bros, and Russia get along well it seems.

It was a pathetic attempt to reach "middle of the ground" voters.

Did you not read that I opened with I hate Cheney? I suppose "don't fucking like" may not have been forceful enough.

I agree they probably leaned too much into it. A "thanks for speaking Cheney." is probably all I would have given her. If that's your only point, fine I agree. But I wouldn't exile her support entirely. If you're mad about that instead of focusing on Trump, you're losing sight of the problem.

I didn't say it wasn't influential. If you stopped responding emotionally or with the intent to derail and attack, you'd realize I literally said specific topics could be more important than others (once again, Palestine another highly controversial one I see you completely skip past). But it's the reach and targeting of these messages to those they resonate most with that is why they are so dangerous. Peter Thiel; Trump investor & close to all the tech bros funding things; was the 1st outside investor in Facebook. It was never "liberal."

Nothing I said implies we don't think about messaging. By now the inaccuracy of your attacks come off as firehose of falsehoods.

Your dismissal of bots and propaganda is not only stupid, it's dangerous. Propaganda has influenced EVERY democracy.

Tell me, which of these was not reportedly influenced and pushed by Russia or is not Russia friendly and has it pushed ties with Russia, both by propaganda & by literally influencing people with money? (Both people to lie for them in media, and politicians to vote for them)

MAGA/US, Brexit/UK, Marine La Pen/France, Bolsonaro/Brazil, AfD/Germany, Polliviere/Canada... the list goes on.

Are you blind? A bootlicker?

And absolutely nothing I've said has ever indicated we don't have a lot to deal with internally. But to fail to acknowledge that we wouldn't be here without our enemies helping these guys get here is to deny reality. I'd rather not drink the Kremlin Tea, thanks.

read the quote at the bottom of my first post again. That is the most important message anyone can take away from these posts.

On one hand I don't fucking like Liz Cheney... on the other hand.... I think you should welcome (almost) anyone against an enemy like Trump. I thought that at the time, and now with the additional information we've gained since then (and I personally learned) only reaffirm that to me. We don't have to glorify Liz Cheney later.

But not voting for Kamala because the coalition allowed Liz Cheney in is probably just as dumb as not voting for Kamala because somehow... Trump isn't WORSE on Palestine?

There is not a "single issue" that won for them beyond voter manipulation. They did the same thing as 2016 and did targeted ads and segmenting people on social media. Mass voter suppression in the south (Russian bomb threats in Georgia... the disenfranchisement across multiple states...etc) FB & Twitter owned by them. TikTok in question but absolutely started showing even more right wing content after the election. I'm sure one issue (or two) might be more influential, but that's only because of the coordinated reach of their voter manipulation.

We have ALL been targeted with propaganda and segmented from each other. They continue to do it now. They lie and Fox News, which something like 60% of the country, carries their lies for them. Bots barrage social media every where. Tech-bro toelickers and tankies promote right wing, anti-globalist propaganda everywhere. (Anti-globalism is primarily right wing, Kremlin propaganda to disconnect The Americas (primarily US ofc) from Europe).

Be wary of bots that feel like they're your ally, too.

"But the 63 per cent of the German people who expressed their opposition to Hitler were much too divided and shortsighted to combine against a common danger which they must have known would overwhelm them unless they united, however temporarily, to stamp it out.”

Excerpt From The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich Shirer, William

The Elon thing is possible, and there's a screenshot in the Reddit thread that's kinda convincing, but I'm still not bought in.

Tinfoil hat brain is wondering if there's something in there someone's supposed to find but 😂 🤷🏻

Stop pretending that people who hoard more money & power than entire countries and have to abuse countless workers to get there have the same level of rational thought as you and me.

It's like the idea of being a king. When you can, at will, throw folks in jail... it messes you up. It changes how you view the world and your role in it.

Then remember that it's not like these guys all just went "I'm a billionaire. That's it. I won. I'm done"

They kept chasing money and kept growing. They kept chasing power. You realize that some of them are thinking about more than just being an influential billionaire, right?

Once again

some of them want their own cities. Look up "freedom cities." Trump has stated, in a 2-3 minute camera clip, that he would like to auction off federal land to billionaires for them to run their own cities. It is unsaid but implied that they would get to make the laws there.

It's literally what Peter Thiel has been trying to accomplish for the rich & wealthy for decades.

"I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible." -Peter Thiel

The only thing these right wingers mean when they say freedom is the freedom for rich people to screw the rest of us even more.

Power. And. Money. Corrupt. You know the saying. It's not a meme, buddy. We have thousands of years of history to show us how often rich & powerful go looney

Hint: it's most of the time

Billionaires are not our allies. And some of them are genuinely stupid enough to have thought they could contain what was going on that it was just gonna be more tax cuts for them. They, like the public, didn't all actually believe it would be true. They are not inherently smarter or more immune to propaganda than we are.

They just have more access to information - if they don't surround themselves with people that are only yes men and such.

Other billionaires are betting on the collapse, and are willing to take less monetary power, to have more literal power if they can create their own city states. Literally what they're hoping for.

They are short sighted, stupid, arrogant, heartless... and, many, traitors.

Some need to be made an example of.

But we accept those who ask for forgiveness. I'm not saying to actually forgive them. Or to re-establish normal lives with them. Other people can do that work.

But they do have to have SOME kind of off-ramp, or you might as well be making the same arguments that MAGA are when they claim "liberalism is a mental illness and should be jailed."

Nope. Jailing anyone without due process/etc is un American. We talked before.

We are on the same side. If you're not a bad actor, I encourage you to take a more constructive approach to this discussion.

When Hamas very first attacked, I was on Israel's side. Not everyone is as educated on Israel's influence on our politics/etc. (fuck Israel. They can figure shit out on their own. I don't want to fund genocide. Period.)