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"Both parties are the same."
"A vote for Harris is a vote for genocide."
Considering she stated she would do nothing different than Biden, yes it is another vote for genocide. The only difference offered between the 2 political parties on this issue is, lip service and ‘another month to leave’. To say the dems were seriously offering a different stance here is cope
Trump is literally doing something different than Biden. He literally wants Palestine cleared of Palestinians. Biden never even approached saying something like that.
No one is claiming Biden or Harris would be good for Palestine. This is far, far worse.
Or is this is one of these "what are you going to believe, me or your own eyes" things?
The something different is, trump is not providing lip service and expediting what is already being done. It was gonna happen either way. If you’re kill them torturing with false promises seems just as cruel. Biden just sent another 8billion in arms at the beginning of this month. I mean c’mon
Biden and the democrats supported a two state solution. Trump is going give the West Bank and Gaza to Israel.
Biden’s actions don’t seem to agree with that…
Trump is about to delete Gaza and the West Bank off of the world map. Biden was far from perfect but verbally was never in support of that.
The more I engage with "protest voters" the more I wonder if, for whatever reason, they are actually accelerationists at heart. Which is ethically dubious as their action (or lack thereof) has accelerated a genocide.
Aiding the genocide has accelerated the genocide. No gymnastics to see that
Dude…. Just take the mask off and be done with it. It’s not like everyone doesn’t already know.
As Trump has shown he will do. Above and beyond anything Biden has said or done.
Prove it.
Can you prove it wasn’t? c’mon Edit: Jan 4, 2025 Joe Biden sent another 8 billion in arms. He didn’t have to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy_Law
That's not how the burden of proof works. You made the claim, it's up to you to show it wasn't a lie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/biden-administration-notifies-congress-of-planned-8-billion-weapons-sale-to-israel
That is not in any way, shape or form proof that Biden would want Gaza emptied of Palestinians like Trump.
No one is denying he sold arms to Israel. No one is justifying it.
That was not what you claimed. You claimed he would have done exactly what Trump is doing.
Prove it.
Maybe they are going to bake cakes with the munitions?…or be used to rebuild infrastructure with them. How many bombs does it take to rebuild a hospital?? lol
You just saying things isn't proof that Biden had the same plans as Trump. Sorry.
In his interview with Time magazine:
Today's headline: Trump says he wants to 'clean out' Gaza and move Palestinians to Jordan and Egypt
All in one week. No difference, right?
If you really think Harris would have done anything significant to restrain Israel I envy your optimism. Voters' only realistic choices for Palestine this election were for furrowed brows or enthusiastic cheerleading, but Israel was getting weapons and political cover for whatever it wanted to do either way.
If you really think Harris would have called for a total ethnic cleansing of Palestine, you paid zero attention to anything she ever said.
How many Palestinians did you ask about who to vote for? Because the Palestinians I talked to before the election were not fans of Harris, but rightfully far more terrified of Trump. I actually go out of my way to talk to Palestinians, and so many people berating me for not caring about genocide or whatever, when I ask them how often they talk to Palestinians, they don't answer.
Like I said, we would have gotten furrowed brows out of Harris, but their wouldn't have been any substantive action to restrain Israel. I voted for her and wished she would have won for a variety of reasons, but trying to guilt trip people who didn't over this particular issue is just completely hollow given the choices we actually had here.
Who am I guilt tripping? How am I guilt tripping them? If you feel guilt about Trump getting elected, that's on you, not me.
Also, I notice you didn't tell me how many Palestinians you talked to about who they would want as president, so I am going to have to assume it's zero and you just think you know what's best for them.
Good on you. 🙌
And now the conflict is winding down just in time for the new presidency. Both parties have reached an agreement and Trump is now fanning the flames again. It wouldn't have happened with Harris.
This "Harris wouldn't have done anything different" is moot.
Are you seriously calling what Trump wants here "less severe" than genocide?
Also, quibbling about the difference between genocide and ethnic cleansing is fucking sick.
Is forcefully displacing a million people less worse than murdering a million people? Yes. Objectively it is.
It should be obvious that being alive is better than being dead. Again this is not to defend Trump. Ethnic cleansing is a tremendous and outrageous crime.
But genocide is a worse crime, and claiming that voting the genociders over the ethnic cleansers is in any way ethically defensible is absurd.
The only acceptable ethical position is to oppose both and to remove anyone who commits or lets these crimes happen from power. It is a moral imperative to do so, even if other people did not. Anyone who voted for a D or R is ultimately complicit in these crimes too. If the US wasn't morally bankrupt, people would have voted a third party to power. Any form of compromise with genocide is complicity. Fucking WW2 and Holocaust should have taught as much.
I think you need to do some reading if you think this is somehow some sort of low-death event.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Walk_of_the_Navajo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_march
But sure, keep defending your hero. His hero Andrew Jackson is on your side too.
Where did i defend Trump? Also do you think it is an acceptable way to discuss to make such insincere personal attacks?
Why do you think, there is distinct categories? Why do you think genocide is singled out and is not equated with ethnic cleansing, like for instance "racial segregation and apartheid" are put together as one crime?
I understand that people are very emotional about Trump right now, but it is dangerous to use this as an excuse to defend the indefensible positions and crimes committed by the Biden administration. Gaslighting people into defending and supporting the "lesser evil" has been used successfully by the Democratic party to prevent sustained progressive and ethical politics.
Where did you defend Trump? You defended him by suggesting that this "ethnic cleansing" plan of his is not a big deal like genocide is and suggested that it might even be a good thing because it will get Democrats to go against Zionism. Which is really fucking sick.
Christ, you people will justify anything to avoid saying you were wrong.
Ethnic cleansing is a synonym for genocide. You may be under the impression that genocide by modern definitions does not include forced relocation, or that ethnic cleansing necessarily can not include killing. You are wrong. What you probably meant was that forced relocation is a less severe form of genocide than extermination. You didn't say that though.
The cease fire was literally agreed upon while Biden was still president. It was Biden's diplomats working to make it happen.
This is genocide. Jesus Christ...
Ah yes, synonym is less severe than synonym.
Very good argument. Very good point.
Yes, both parties doing bad thing makes bad thing okay. Make sense. If my neighbors all decided we can blow up the next block over for reasons, it definitely makes it very cool and very legal for me to help.
This is the dumbest take I’ve ever seen in my life.