this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2025
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"If the purges [of potential voters], challenges and ballot rejections were random, it wouldn’t matter. It’s anything but random. For example, an audit by the State of Washington found that a Black voter was 400% more likely than a white voter to have their mail-in ballot rejected. Rejection of Black in-person votes, according to a US Civil Rights Commission study in Florida, ran 14.3% or one in seven ballots cast."

"[...] Democracy can win* despite the 2.3% suppression headwind.

And that’s our job as Americans: to end the purges, the vigilante challenges, the ballot rejections and the attitude that this is all somehow OK."

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (5 children)

By “restrictive voting laws” do you mean voters having to show ID? Like every other country on the planet?

[–] [email protected] 31 points 5 months ago (1 children)

No, this article is talking about things like rejecting registration based on minor clerical errors like ink color, rejecting provisional ballots arbitrarily, and restricting the availability of ballot boxes. That sort of thing.

On the voter id question, by the way, the argument isn’t about whether or not you should have ID to vote, it’s about whether you can get ID in the first place.

Most countries in the world either issue IDs to everyone or allow you to prove your identity with things like bank statements and utility bills, or just somebody else who can vouch for you. The problem with US voter ID laws is that they only give you a few options for acceptable documents, and then make it hard to get those documents.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

or allow you to prove your identity with things like bank statements and utility bills, or just somebody else who can vouch for you.

My state's voter ID allows all of those things and more (including the voter registration card given to you for free when you register and whenever you update your registration as well as SNAP and TANF cards), although here the "somebody else who can vouch for you" has to have ID themselves and has to sign a sworn statement on penalty of perjury that you are who you say you are and that they have known you for at least 6 months.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Yeah, that seems like a reasonable approach.

By comparison, North Carolina attempted to implement a voter ID law in 2016 that was eventually overturned by the Supreme Court because it deliberately targeted black voters.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Why don't you ever try and actually meet the other side in good faith?

Opponents of voter ID have a very simple line of argumentation, and very clear issues that would need to be solved. Why do you think proponents of voter ID never attempt to solve these issues?

Why do proponents always insist that voter ID has to be implemented in a way that happens to hurt minority voters disproportionately?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Look at Spain. We have been using our IDs for decades and it's a great way to solve that problem. You just go to the voting table, show your ID (DNI) and vote. That's it. And it works for everything related to anything official.

But because of the voting system we don't have gerrymandering (or at least not that much).

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (2 children)

That works great for Spain (and most other countries) because it has a compulsory national ID. This doesn't exist in the US, so introducing such laws shouldn't be done before easy access to such an ID exists for everyone.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Why don't you ever try and actually meet the other side in good faith?

You first

Opponents of voter ID have a very simple line of argumentation, and very clear issues that would need to be solved.

Like?

Why do you think proponents of voter ID never attempt to solve these issues?

You don't name them or they're aren't an actual issue

Why do proponents always insist that voter ID has to be implemented in a way that happens to hurt minority voters disproportionately?

They don't

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You first

No, I won't allow you to disadvantage minorities, no matter how often you ask.

Like?

You've literally never listened to anyone opposing your view? Or why are you asking me?

You don’t name them or they’re aren’t an actual issue

No, I think you're a bad faith troll and won't invest more time than strictly necessary. If you're not a bad faith troll, it's literally one search away!

They don’t

You literally started your comment doing exactly this

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

No, I won't allow you to disadvantage minorities, no matter how often you ask.

I won't allow you to stereotype minorities as people incapable of doing things, especially something as easy as getting an ID.

You've literally never listened to anyone opposing your view? Or why are you asking me?

I do it everyday, you just don't have an answer

it's literally one search away!

Should be easy for you to name them then

You literally started your comment doing exactly this

I literally never said anything about that. Literally

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

I won’t allow you to stereotype minorities as people incapable of doing things, especially something as easy as getting an ID.

Strawman racist bullshit, disguised as uplifting affirmation of equality. Tell us you don't see color while you're at it.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Oh, it's a bad faith troll, what a surprise, who could have seen it coming, oh no

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I just responded the same way you did

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (4 children)

If you really think that, I'll give you one last chance. I'll explain why your response to my serious points was wrong. You can explain properly why you disagree, without resorting to strawmans or insults or anything. Deal?

My position is: minorities will be disproportionately affected by voter ID laws, since it's on average objectively harder for a poor person to get an ID (due to transportation, scheduling due to possibly multiple jobs etc.), and minorities are disproportionately poor. You could mitigate this disproportionate effect by first ensuring easy and equal access to ID for all citizens. Even if you disagree on any of these points, you should at least be able to accept that you can get what you want if you give me what I want, and giving me what I want doesn't hurt you in any way.

So, why do you still ask me to make the first move? Why can't you see that you're blocking yourself from getting what you want here?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Like?

You don’t name them or they’re aren’t an actual issue

The biggest and most obvious is that ID isn't available to literally everyone who can legally vote without cost to the end user of any kind, and as a consequence requiring such an ID is tantamount to a poll tax. Federal ID that's fully subsidized would be the easiest solution, and if done right you could even optionally fold most state ID systems into a federal one with things like being licensed to drive being an endorsement on the federal ID.

Notably, the same people who demand photo ID to vote also tend to be the people terrified of a federal ID as a concept.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I SENTENCE THIS USER TO ONE HOUR ON THE CHAIR OF CHEER

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I sentence you to a lifetime

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's not as difficult to get ID in many other countries

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's harder than it should be

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Harder than going to the place that gives them out and asking for one? I'm not going to hold your hand

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

It is, I've done it many times

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I am very happy it has been easy for you. From what I have read that is not the case for many

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (22 children)

I have, in my country, where it's relatively easy, but since I know this question is coming. Here is a source for you.

https://www.voteriders.org/impact-of-id-barriers/

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Are you white? Are you not living in poverty?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

So that's a yes to both.

Cute, though, that you're trying to pretend that no one can tell what color your skin is and unable to tell whether or not you are wearing tattered old clothes. That's a level of white privilege I rarely encounter.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

https://today.umd.edu/umd-analysis-millions-of-americans-dont-have-id-required-to-vote

And "just get one" is not a solution when you live in poverty and don't even have the transportation to go to the nearest license branch, which could be miles away. If you still have the proper documents, which sometimes are ridiculous in terms of what is needed.

And then, if you're black and were born in the South during (and even sometimes after) Jim Crow, it's entirely possible that there is no official record of your birth because no hospital would admit your mother.

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