this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2025
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submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

I mean... I kinda get it, but nowadays it's starting to get absurd.

(EDIT: This was supposed to be a "blow air out my nose and get on with my life" meme...)

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 4 months ago (7 children)

You may or may not think China is "authoritarian" but how on earth are they fascist?

[–] [email protected] 60 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

Far right? Hm, maybe not. Otherwise: Check, check, quasi-check, check, check, check, ...

[–] [email protected] 32 points 4 months ago (2 children)

China has become a psudo Capitalist country in its quest for world domination.

Capitalism goes hand in hand with right wing extremism

I think China would have to do a lot more for the avg person before they could be considered socialist or communist again

[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Socialism isn't when the government does stuff for the people, it's when the people take matters into their own hands and do stuff for the good of each other. Even if a state behaves in the most benevolent way possible, it is not socialist unless the workers have collective ownership of the means of production.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

By that definition there are no socialist countries.

When people talk about socialism in the real world it doesn't mean owning the means of production

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Only because the very concepts of ownership and the collective-individual dichotomy are necessarily vague and subjective. China considers themselves socialist because they equivocate the people with the state. If the people are collectively represented by the state and the state owns (some of) the means of production, then at least transitively the people own (some of) the means of production.

As an anarchist I don't believe the state adequately represents the interests of the people, nor do I think it could even if it were radically democratic and egalitarian, though I would still certainly prefer that to the existing status quo. Somewhere a line must be drawn arbitrarily and I prefer to draw it on the other side of authoritarian state control.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

China considers themselves socialist because they equivocate the people with the state.

Isn't that kinda the line between socialism and communism? That communism has no state, but that a socialist state can act as a sort of intermediary.

Not that it's the only socialist model, mind you; a market economy composed entirely of individual private worker co-ops is another model, for example. Then there's the issue of implementation, whether the people actually democratically control the government.

But ideologically, while not communist, I don't see how that structure can't be considered socialist.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (8 children)

I think China would have to do a lot more for the avg person before they could be considered socialist or communist again

Within the last five years China completely eliminated the worst category of poverty in their borders. I'd say they are currently actively engaged in doing a lot more for the average person than most countries.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

If you can take the Chinese Government for their word. Which I can't

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I'm sorry but a dictator for life is a dealbreaker.

I'll admit that a truly dedicated and benevolent dictator could run a good society, there are a few examples in the past too.

But it's going to collapse once daddy dies like every dictatorship.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

What makes you think Xi is a dictator? If your answer is "because that's the vibe I get from American Government propaganda", then you should reassess the things you think you know about the world. The truth is that China has a very vibrant and active democracy that is much more responsive to the demands of its people than that of most other nations, and Xi is merely the one currently at the top of that democratic system.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago
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[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (3 children)

So... Authoritarian, and not far right... So... Not fascist.

Calling a government fascist, but not far-right is like calling Death Valley a lake. There's no fucking water (anymore), its not a fucking lake.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The far-right part is critical though. It’s kind of like how breast cancer needs to be in breast tissues. China is just authoritarian.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

Exactly. China is colon cancer, not breast cancer

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

Tradition is big. E.g TCM crap over science

You cannot disagree with the state

Stokes fear and hatred of outsiders

Blames social frustrations on those outsiders

Appeals to restore past glory

Han ethnic supremacy

You could go through all of Eco’s points and apply them to China pretty fittingly.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (2 children)

This is all some seriously internalized US propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

What is? Calling China fascist isn’t American propaganda because the government and its sources do not claim China is fascist. The Americans calling China fascist are poorly educated in fascism. China is authoritarian but not fascist.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm agreeing with you for the most part, their list of talking points is the propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Anything negative of China is propaganda says the .ml tankie.

Gee, you wouldn’t happen to be utterly biased at all.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

So if you post on social media "I think Dictator Xi should be removed from office and we should have real elections again" nothing will happen?

I feel like something happens if you post that in China that you don't want to talk about.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You can’t ask that in any authoritarian nation so. that isn’t demonstrating that China is fascist.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Doublethink is cringe.

Stop with the mental gymnastics before you pull a muscle

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago

Saying something “is cringe” is a great way o demonstrate poor communication skills.

Nothing you mention is unique to fascism nor would be used by educated people to determine if a nation is fascist.

It’s ok that you know nothing about fascism as that is downright common on Lemmy but don’t double down on the arrogance after proving your ignorance.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

What happens? Do you have any evidence of what happens besides your imagination?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

This is exactly the propaganda I'm referring to. I'm sure some people are being detained unjustly. I'm also very sure that number, whether per capita or in raw headcount, is a lot lower than in the US.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Nothing is real if you don't want to engage with it.

Sorry this makes you uncomfortable

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago

Using language like "disappeared" to refer to detainees just because the Western media can't conduct interviews with them in prison is textbook propaganda-speak.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Been on xiaohongshu for a while now and the chinese netizens I interacted with were nothing but kind to foreigners even when we treated them like shit.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

You're interacting with the ones who are still allowed internet access.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Many of them use VPNs to get around firewalls and I speak with them aswell on other platforms. I am learning mandarin and it is quite helpful. I don't like everypart of their society, there is still some of misogyny and homophobia that makes me uncomfortable but I have seen worse here. The people of xiaohongshu are actually making great strides to combat this and I applaud them. I have probably spoken candidly with people from every major city. What makes you think people without global internet are inherently more reactionary. Wouldn't their views be reflected in the people that have that access as well? If it is so nation wide?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Cool.

I'm glad their lives aren't hell under their fascist regime.

Most of the time when a country tries to make an ethnostate the main race get to live pretty good lives.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Wild that you actually think China is a Han ethnostate. Are you the type to believe they are sterilizing their minorities?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Anecdotal evidence means nothing, doubly so from a .ml troll.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

You can literally go on XHS or douyin and speak with them yourself

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Not agreeing with your dictator makes it impossible to leave the country, keeps your bloodline out of good schools, and if your rhetoric is bad enough you just get abducted and dissappear.

Social Credit Scores are dehumanizing and evil.

Pretty fascist if you ask me.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The social credit score stuff is basically a Western myth. There was some local level rumblings and plans, but most of it has been unpopular or axed. The only thing that exists at a national level for individuals is the equivalent of a credit score in the US and western countries. I believed this narrative at one point, but then I delved deeper. https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/22/1063605/china-announced-a-new-social-credit-law-what-does-it-mean/

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (4 children)

If you talk bad about the dictator they take away your right to buy train and airline tickets to escape the country.

This is real policy.

There are repercussions for saying you want free and fair elections, that is unacceptable

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

Everything you listed is common to all authoritarian systems not just fascism. China is authoritarian not fascist.

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