this post was submitted on 19 Apr 2025
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I know a lot of people who bought teslas before musk became a full blown oligarch and feel uncomfortable about it
I'd sell that shit at a loss.
Any car is sold at a loss. As someone who recently paid one of these off, I can’t stomach a new car payment in the face of our melting economy because six years ago I didn’t foresee the head of a car company turning out to be a freaking nazi.
Considering my Tesla replaced a VW TDI, I’m feeling particularly salty and completely disillusioned about ethical consumption under capitalism, etc. etc. I wish people on Lemmy could have some empathy and not just assume that everyone driving a Tesla is sanctioning anything that Elon Musk does.
I'm currently driving that VW TDI -- best car I've ever owned in 35 years. Next vehicle wasn't going to be a Tesla, but perhaps an F150 Lightning if they ever get their head out their asses and offer a regular old e-pickup -- I don't want quad cab and a short bed, just two doors and a regular full size bed would be great. Alas, that's hard to find in ICE, let alone electric.
That emissions cheating soured me on them
(Though I do believe they used a clever method)
Glad it’s so good!
The dumbest part is that after I got my car updated (the Passat only needed a firmware update) the fuel economy was not even one MPG worse. It’s been a decade and I’m still regularly getting slightly better than 50MPG on the highway and low-30s in the city. There was no reason to cheat.
No way!
Was the cheat focused on the rest of the fleet (larger cars?), but applied to all [JIC]? 🤔
50+ wao
It's my understanding that the cheat was in all TDI models, but the smaller Jetta was particularly bad because it didn't have a urea system and the fix for that model was to retrofit one. My Passat may have needed a more robust urea injector and not just software, but I can't remember now. Either way on my year/model the fix was barely noticeable.
How do you fill a urea tank on a passenger vehicle? I don't see those pumps at the gas station, and doubt it's as easy as peeing into a bottle..
It's just like the DEF tanks on 18 wheelers. I buy a 10L jug of it from Walmart for something like $10. In my trunk there's a panel you remove and under it there's a small cap very similar to the gas cap. Remove that, hook up the DEF bottle hose (the bottles come with a 12-15" corrugated hose) and very slowly pour it in. You don't want to spill that stuff, it's nasty not because it's urea, but because when it dries it kind of crystallizes and makes a real bloody awful mess.
Replace the cap, replace the panel cover, close the trunk and you're done for another 9-15mos.
Huh, interesting. I knew about urea injection to reduce diesel emissions, but didn't know it was a thing for passenger cars.
My car is a diesel. I believe catalytic converters are the usual fare for gasoline engines.
I understand not being in a financial position to buy a new car (though Telsas are expensive, I’m sure you could trade it in for something and still avoid a new payment).
Anyway, the good news is if you can’t afford to change cars “Fuck Elon” bumper stickers are very cheap!
https://www.etsy.com/market/anti_elon_musk_car_sticker
He was a boldfaced liar six years ago, too. You fell for the "full self driving by 2016" scam and the other false claims and fabrications.
We did not purchase full self driving. My husband rightfully thought that it was a bit of a pipe dream. I’m too much of a control freak to allow a car to drive for me. Also six years ago was 2019 so if you think I fell for “full self driving by 2016” then I think you can’t do math.
Are you suggesting that full self driving was fully implemented by 2019? Because it's 2025 and it's still not ready. How have I failed at math?
But if the scam was already running for three years, then it seems all the more sensible not to trust this person, no? How is it better that people are still falling for his lies after a decade?
I guess I see what you’re saying about not trusting Elon Musk because he had promised something that thus far had not been delivered. And you’re right, we didn’t trust him and didn’t purchase the option. But we thought the car was still okay. I still like the car, for the most part. Does that make sense? The car and the full self driving option were two separate purchases, one of which we did not make.
I understand your rationale, that makes sense.
Perhaps my priority is different, as I don't make a habit of making investments with companies that have well documented track records of misleading and lying to customers. I didn't buy a Tesla then, and I wouldn't now, and the only thing that has changed is the public perception. That, for me, is secondary to the trustworthiness of the company.
I get that. I had already been burned by VW with the TDI scandal, so I was pretty frustrated with car companies in general. Are any of them truly ethical or consumer-focused? We saw that Tesla was at least trying to make the electric car thing work and we wanted to support that movement—not because we think electric cars are the endgame solution, but because we think they’re a step in the right direction and we wanted to encourage the market to follow their lead.
And buying a car is not an investment. It’s not like we own Tesla stock.
One thing I did really, really like about buying a car from Tesla is that they don’t use a dealership model. What a breath of fresh air! I never want to buy from a dealer ever again if I can help it. But I think the next time we’re in the market, we’ll buy used anyway.
That's completely relatable. I was in the market for a new car in 2019 and ironically chose for VW despite the emissions scandal.
For me, buying a car remains a multi-year investment, because I bought it to serve a purpose over an extended period of time. I ran the numbers for 10 years between different manufacturers, each with different base prices, but also prices for subscriptions, service and repairs, and contrasted against long term costs of alternatives like public transportation. What exactly defines an investment is somewhat of a grey area and I guess the same logic would disqualify a home as an investment. The only real difference is that a car is always a bad investment (unless you take Elmo at his word).
It's unfortunate that the dealership situation has weighed in to your decision, as Tesla abused their position as a new entry into the market to be exempt from state franchise laws. Most other car manufacturers have been selling cars longer through the conventional dealership model and are literally forbidden from adapting. Some states have maximum market share requirements which were put into place after the popularity of Tesla took off, effectively squeezing new entrants like Rivian out of state markets like Washington. This issue is more about state regulations and how Tesla uses and abuses its power to increase their profit margin.
I'm not at all arguing in favor of dealerships—don't get me wrong. But the fact that Tesla doesn't have them is not because of any innovation, but an unfair competitive advantage.
That's assuming a lot. I wanted a car that was fast, electric, had easy charging, good range, and didn't cost $100,000. 5 years ago, that was a Model 3.
Didn't give a shit about Musk's lies, always knew he was full of it and was a typical scumbag CEO; I did not peg him as someone to go full on Nazi mode.
If you knew then that he was a liar, then I really don't see how you can complain about it now. You evidently knew which business you were getting into.
You can say that about literally any company that exists under capitalism.
That's an odd position to take. Fraud is okay since others commit fraud as well? Not many companies have a Wikipedia entry documenting their ongoing deception and fraud since 2017.
My position on Elon Musk and Tesla by extension is clear. If you are supportive of them, that's completely up to you.
Considering said Wikipedia entry did not exist 5 years ago, when I mentioned the prior requirements of mine that were met at the time, that wouldn't have helped me much at the time. Seems pretty convenient for current prospective buyers as of the article's publishing, 3 years ago.
Regardless, to reiterate, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, but I'm sure you've never consumed a product from a company that's committed any form of fraud or other unethical act.
Having said all of this, please do not take what I'm saying here as support for Tesla, Elon, or unethical corporate practices in general. There is no way in hell I would buy a Tesla as of now, and I do indeed try to limit my consumption from companies I disagree with on moral and ethical grounds.
Call me ignorant at the time of purchase, if you want, I suppose.
I certainly have; I bought a VW four years after the TDI emissions scandal. I'm by no means immune to this.
As an aside, the fact that the Wikipedia article didn't exist doesn't mean the issues cited in it weren't already widely reported in the media. Some infamous court cases go back to 2017, including SEC fraud and union busting. False claims have been Elmo's standard operating procedure with promises such as full self driving and range first becoming broken beginning 2016, and speed of supercharging and battery swapping in 2013.
This is of course to say nothing of the outright taxpayer fraud of Hyperloop and the Boring Company, but that's a story for another day.
If you're curious, here's a nifty website that's been tracking his truthiness: https://elonmusk.today/
Costs 1 EUR and takes 10sec to put a sticker on a Tesla that says "I bought this before Elon went mad" and plenty of people on Lemmy would understand I bet. It's more of a gesture to show that one having a Tesla does not support the actions of the its CEO. A Tesla without even a sticker on is assumed to be owned by someone who knows yet either does not care or even supports Musk.
No one cares when you bought. You’re supposed to flood the used Tesla market to suppress new sales happening NOW.
I’ve heard a lot of excuses from Tesla drivers about how they can’t afford to stand for their ethics. It’s pathetic. How are we to believe this from anyone who could afford one in the first place?
Plot yourself on the historical spectrum of “what was I willing to give up for my ideals” and that brave moral stand about not having a car payment looks pretty fucking limp.
I have empathy for you. I’m just more concerns with your soul than your car payment.
I’m in a different position financially than where I was six years ago.
Flooding the used Tesla market is not a strategy I had heard before you mentioned it, actually. Maybe if I was in the same position that I was six years ago financially, I would be making different choices. But I’m not.
As for my soul, Lemmy talks a big game about focusing on the class struggle, but whenever I admit to having a Tesla, everyone piles on like I am the worst person ever. I got flat out scammed by VW and I certainly didn’t fucking know that Musk was quite as massive a tool as he has shown himself to be now. Maybe I wasn’t paying enough attention. But all I’m saying is that I’m not the real enemy here.
To whom though
Aquaman.
Carvana, carmax, etc.
I did
I cant wait till we start seeing them with all the conspicacy-nut writing all over them but the other way around:
Vaccines work, fuck musk, lgbt rights are himan rights etc.
i also wonder what people in cali are thinking when they bought the cybertruck, because i seen quite a few to them. i noticed they try to obscure the windos,s o people dont know that are driving it.
They just weren't paying attention then because Musk has always been exactly that.
Do you look up every owner of the manufacturer of everything you buy? I agree he has been this way for a while. But people buy cars for transportation. Not for their owners.
Like the other guy said, Elon Musk is public about his shittiness. In the beginning didn't even care about him, and yet I couldn't escape him because he was constantly on the news.
I am not denying that Elon is shitty. But people don't buy cars based on their manufacturing owners. There is a need and they are fulfilling that need. Should they have known? Probably. But it's also not a usual requirement for purchasing a car.
Well, if you go back to my original comment, all I said was that Tesla owners were clearly not paying attention to even their News notifications on their phones, since Musk's presence is ubiquitous. Tesla's multitude of issues is equally as well-known.
That said, I didn't wish anybody any harm for buying a Tesla, although they probably will get harmed when the "self-driving" feature inevitably sends them speeding into a brick wall.
But buying that garbage car was their choice.
True, but most CEOs are unknown to consumers, only to employees and share-holders. Usually there is a "culture" of a company that is a blend of PR, advertising, marketing, etc. Here Musk became associated with the brand though. Tesla existed before Musk and worked well... but was nowhere near a popular. I hate Musk yet I feel it's fair (and please if you have data showing I'm wrong, do share, I'd love to remove any wrongful attributed credit from him) to say he made Tesla enormously more popular than before he invested in it. So... you are right in most cases people buy cars, and other products, without knowing about the CEO but that specifically does not apply to Tesla where the hype precisely came from a self branded as IronMan.
Supports a literal Oligarch Nazi
Feels uncomfortable about it
Doesnt do anything about it
Sounds about right for America in 2025.