this post was submitted on 21 Apr 2025
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Leopards Ate My Face

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"It could break us": Valley farmer says Chinese tariffs have crushed the alfalfa export market (www.abc15.com)
submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/28499504

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[–] [email protected] 106 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

Answer:

  • The water-intensive farming is absolutely fucking the ecology of the American southwest in a way that's effectively irreversible on human timescales.
  • The money being generated by this farming is going to a select few completely undeserving, morally bankrupt people who know the damage they're doing and are hoarding swathes of land and water rights they were given for effectively nothing generations ago.
  • This alfalfa is then shipped internationally to Saudi Arabia literally halfway across the world, generating greenhouse gas emissions and other forms of pollution.
  • This alfalfa is then used to grow cattle, meaning that value is being extracted from the US – at a meager cost compared to the externalities we bear – and given to the theocratic shithole whose entire economy is based on destroying the planet that is Saudi Arabia.
  • Edit: the cows produce a bunch of methane over their lifetime.
  • The cows are then brutally murdered for food despite extensive evidence that cows can feel pain and do feel emotions like fear.
  • This cow meat is then fed to people despite the fact that 1) red meat is a class 2a carcinogen (and frankly in light of evidence that vegetarian and vegan diets reduce risks of certain cancers by double-digit percentages, we're all just waiting until it's confirmed rather than heavily suspected as a carcinogen), 2) it substantially increases the risk of heart disease, and 3) it elevates the risk for diabetes when compared to plant-based foods which are cheaper and less resource-intensive to create.

It's a benefit to essentially everyone if alfalfa farming becomes less profitable. The entire chain from water to cow meat is unjust, cruel, and otherwise fucking terrible.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 2 months ago

Good answer. (Not sarcasm)

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It would would have been cool if you'd left out the vegan propaganda

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

So, caring about the environment = cool

But caring about animals, which are inextricably a part of the environment (a link which can be demonstrated by the pollution produced by industrial farming) = not cool?

Seems an odd place to draw the line, but ok.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Half the circle of life is animals dying bud

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago

It's all about balance. Factory farms are not balanced. Eating meat isn't evil (in my opinion) but factory farming absolutely is.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

and? are you really going to use "but they're doing it!" as the justification? if everyone around you is kicking people with freckles will you join in just because?

"it's natural" is a complete non-sequiteur, it has 0 bearing on whether or not we should do it.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Bad answer (how do you know someone is a vegan?)

[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Did they say anything inaccurate or does reality just make you uncomfortable?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Insects feel pain, yet I hear no complaints over how many trillions are blended factory farming crops 🤷🏻‍♂️ you clearly gotta draw the line somewhere and y’all chose the far less tasty option.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Actually, vegans care about those insects too! The logic goes as follows:

  • Plant-based diets not only don't kill and torture animals who have a higher capacity to suffer than insects, but just as importantly
  • Plant-based diets use substantially fewer crops than animal-based ones. This is just a consequence of thermodynamics that every step of the chain loses more and more energy, and thus more crops are needed at each stage. This is a major reason (other than prions) why you won't usually see carnivores raised for food: it'd be wildly inefficient because you'd need way more crops and way more resource usage. The land usage for animal products is massive, and even the most "efficient" animals like chickens take 1.5 to 2 kg of crops for 1 kg of growth (we're talking about cows here, though, where the ratio is fucking enormous: around 4.5:1 to 7.5:1), and even then a lot of this growth goes toward things like bones which are used for byproducts rather than food.

Vegans don't eat insects because we care about insects. Vegans don't eat honey because we care about insects. And logically, we don't eat meat, milk, eggs, etc. because we care about insects. Veganism is about excluding animal exploitation "as far as is possible and practicable", not about being literally perfect. And the difference in scale here is enormous. This argument is made all the time without realizing that if you care about insects, the first and most effective thing you can do is not to use animal products.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Just wanted to say I've had you marked with notes before as someone really good with your research, but each time I see your longer answers I make sure to take the time to read it. Really appreciate the knowledge transfer on a lot of your posts, please don't stop!