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Love that the "just following orders" defense is making a comeback. Just as valid today as during the Nuremberg trials.
The big takeaway from WWII is that the Nazis were evil and responsible for the atrocities that they committed, not the German people. Low ranking soldiers being complacent through coercion is not the same thing as being a leader who has influence over the situation. That's why we condemn Hitler and the Nazi leaders, and not the foot soldiers.
Your takeaway from WWII is that the guy shoving the kids into the gas chambers should not be condemned? What the fuck is wrong with you?
We absolutely do condemn the foot soldiers and it’s a shame that they have never been held responsible. And we condemn Zionist foot soldiers as well and there needs to be some kind of Jerusalem trials or whatever next where Israelis need to be de-Nazified, Zionism is irredeemable.
Its not though. Do you think a few years in prison will make you a better person? Or having to find a job as a felon or whatever the Israeli equivalent is? you are asking people to do shit no one will ever ask of you and you will never be put in a similar situation. Fuck the IDF, but if you want this to end you have to see the whole picture.
So this is pretty much exactly the line of reasoning that the nazis used to defend their participation in the holocaust. It wasn't convincing then, and no, it isn't convincing for the current genocide either.
Then we should be thinking hard about how these countries recruit. I am not saying defend the war criminals, but if you want to fight them you have to see how they work.
Look at all these countries that fought the nazis long ago and how they became more and more fascist afterward. you would think they would be smarter then this, but it is clear all the wrong lessons have been learned.
Sure, but that's a whole different convo from finding "your honor, I had to murder the 5 year old; the alternative was a couple of months in prison and flipping burgers for the rest of my life" at all agreeable.
Agreed. But it sure does not feel like people here want to make that distinction.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. To be clear about my own position in this:
Chanting death to the idf is, to me, morally equivalent to chanting death to the SS. Both are ok, even though the SS had forced conscription.
Forced conscription is bad, but not really on topic.
Again I agree. But I feel like we are simpling it to much. And I kind of feel like people are not making those distinctions. And it's kind of galling to hear it from nice normal countries that dont have to deal with all this.
I still don't really understand what you mean. What does "it" refer to? And what are nice normal countries?
By it I mean how the idf is used and it's place in the Palestinian and Israeli conflict.
And by nice normal counties I mean counties that don't have recruiters at high schools, that don't do the pledge of allegiance very day at school, that don't hit you over the head with how brave and great their military is and provide free healthcare an college to non military members.
I think we should disallow any travelers or trade from Israel into my country. No currency of fascists should be traded with dollars, until as a state they atone for their crimes.
Maybe? Isreal would still have the better weapon platforms then its regional neighbors and i think will more likely use a nuke in a situation like that if it feels desperate enough.
If they use a nuke then they are done.
Why would you think that republicans would not continue their support of them?