this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2025
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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

Central to the case was the use of the word, “haole,” a Hawaiian word with meanings that include foreigner and white person. Dennis Kunzelman testified that the men called him “haole” in a derogatory way.

Attorneys for Aki and Alo-Kaonohi said it was not Kunzelman’s race that provoked them but his entitled and disrespectful attitude.

Yeah. That's not a hate crime.

I'd get called a haole 5x walking two blocks to the beach. Especially in an area that's still mostly native, they ain't going to just jump to using the same words for you they use with lifelong members of the community.

You're literally an outsider and need to make an effort to be welcomed into the community. Until then, you're going to be called the word for outsider. Well, technically it means "soulless" but it's not as bad as it sounds.

Edit:

To clarify like a lot of Asian communities a lot of importance is put on family units.

So amongst themselves, everyone is: auntie/uncle niece/nephew brother/sister/cuz

If you're not part of their family group, they ain't going to call you that.

You're a "haole" and that's all it means, one translation is just "not of the island". It's not automatically a bad thing, and rarely is.

But lots of haoles are dicks too. So sometimes you get checked to make sure you're cool.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

Racists will kill a native man because his partner is trans after torching their home and beheading their beloved dog, and cops will shrug their shoulders and argue that it's not a hate crime

Meanwhile...

(RIP Jonathan Joss)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 21 hours ago

I grew up in Hawaii, I got called a haole by everyone. It wasn’t hateful.

One of my favorite anecdotes is about a class at UH-Manoa taught by a haole woman who had moved to Hawaii in the late 60s. A student complained about being called haole, and the professor responded “if you’re white in Hawaii you can be one of three things: a haole, a dumb haole, or a dumb fucking haole.”

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

The simple answer is if you have a legitimate reason to beat someone's ass don't use any racial slurs while you're doing it

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I was putting an edit in before I saw your reply.

But it's just a stand in for when something like auntie/nephew/cousin/etc isn't appropriate because the person isn't native.

It's not a racial slur. It's just what they use for someone that isn't family.

So it could 100% be coupled with insults at someone because of their race, but the word itself isn't inherently racist.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

It’s not a racial slur. It’s just what they use for someone that isn’t family.

I mean it definitely can be. I mean, fuck, my best friend Kai (who is 100% Hawaiian, from a well known Hawaiian family) just about beat the shit out of another mutual friend (who is also Hawaiian) when he was was joking about his kid gonna catch diseases from the haole he was standing next to (me). Friend maybe meant it as a joke, but Kai sure af took it seriously enough to scrap.

But I've also had another neighbor tell me "Oh you don' worry nephew, you da' good kinna haole", and mean it.

So it depends. It depends how you say it and what context.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I don't know shit about Hawaii so I have no context on what the word means or how it's used. But it seems like a Hawaiian court was convinced enough that it was a racial slur to upgrade this assault to a hate crime.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

I don’t know shit about Hawaii

My advice would be to ask more questions, and make less assumptions...

Especially when you're assuming a disadvantages minority population gets fair treatment in an American judicial system...

https://www.acluhi.org/en/news/special-report-bias-against-native-hawaiians-hawaii-criminal-justice-system

https://justicepolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/10-09_exs_disparatetreatmentofnativehawaiians_rd-ac.pdf

https://ictnews.org/archive/addressing-the-native-hawaiian-inmate-issue

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/disparate-treatment-native-hawaiians-criminal-justice-system

It's not subtle, and it's definitely not a secret, why are you trying to form opinions on co.plex societal topics off a handful of social media comments?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 18 hours ago

My advice would be to ask more questions, and make less assumptions...

I'm not. I'm deferring to 12 Hawaiian jurors and a Hawaiian judge.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If I was kicking the shit out of a Mexican in the USA and calling them an immigrant, it would be a hate crime.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If I was kicking the shit out of a Mexican in the USA and calling them an immigrant, it would be a hate crime.

That analogy doesn't really make sense...

Here's a real life example of what I heard witness multiple fights out there:

Local vs local

You're a bitch ass cuz

Local vs mainlander (regardless of race)

You're a bitch ass haole

That's it.

It ain't deeper than a substitute for a word that denotes familiar relations...

You seem awfully desperate to find an example of white victimhood though

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

You seem awful willing to dismiss hate against a white person like it’s okay to hurt them because they’re white.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 23 hours ago

Haole means white. There's history and original translations that have different meanings, but in modern usage I've only ever heard it meaning white. It's definitely not used for "not family" and it's not really applied to other races unless it's to describe them as being like stereotypical white people. Uncle/auntie is just an informal honorific for anyone older than you (no race or family restrictions). I'd be described as a haole and referred to as uncle by people younger than me with no implications about where I'm from. There are plenty of white people born in Hawaii that wouldn't think twice about being labeled haole, even some with Native Hawaiian ancestry.

It's not necessarily a slur though, that depends on context, but in the context of threatening or beating the shit out of someone it's kind of hard to argue they were just using it neutrally. Like it's not impossible, but you're really starting at a disadvantage.