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To be fair: The Democratic Party isn't a viable political engine for positive social change or a working-class agenda. If Cuomo wins it will be yet another example of how untrustworthy, hypocritical, and vapid Blue No Matter Who voting habits are.
Remember when mods coordinated to ban any criticism of BNMW / Blue Maga from all the major subs during 2024? How they the cultivated a community of briggading, sea-lioning, etc.. to try and suppress any criticism of an approach to politics that was obviously going to hand the country to Trump?
My ass. I wish the mods had banned obviously disingenuous "let's let Trump win to make a point, what's the difference anyway" made-up critique that blamed Kamala Harris for Gaza and inflation, under a tissue-thin pretense of "I just care about the country sooooooooooooooooooooo much that I'm giving well informed constructive criticism." Instead we had to just yell at y'all about it in the comments, which since there were hundreds of posts and comments every single day with that viewpoint was always a losing battle. Even trolling of crayon-quality transparency of the UniversalMonk variety was explicitly allowed by the mods, and people who objected to it too strongly got banned for it.
The whining about how you're not allowed to get your message out, which is constantly broadcasted on every channel where you're claiming you're being silenced, is just part and parcel of the alternate reality you're having a good bit of success in constructing. MAGA does it too, it's part of the package.
You do understand that your cynical lying about the past is why your camp is losing the argument? I mean, I don't dislike you, at least not personally, and and even if I have to drag you by the hair onto the right side of history, I'll at least afford you the charity required for you to fix yourself.
There is no point in bothering with conjecture regarding the bans. They happened, its documented, any one can look it up. It doesn't help your following arguments to simply lie about a reality people can easily go reference for themselves, if they didn't live the experience themselves, as many of us have. A conjecture rooted in the same cynicism that cost us the election.
Now as before, your cynical misrepresentation of the arguments which were made also works against you. We argued that without replacing Biden, we'd lose the election. And we had the same claims you are levying, here, now, levied against us them. That we were secret Trump supporters. That we were the ones costing the Democrats the election. And then, as it does, the truth of the matter has a way of finding itself out. And we who stayed focus on an accurate and valid criticisms we're proven right. In-spite of this, and this is the true cost of cynicism, you continued to reject the analysis and criticism of those who got it right. Instead of showing grace and changing, yours doubled down on your wrongness, when even the beltway insiders had the humility to recognize how wrong they'd been. No. No instead you embraced the worst instinct: to double down on the cynicism. Harris needed to pivot away from Biden's policies and political techniques to come back in the extra innings she was afforded. But no. The cynics won the side-line arguments on how to handle the extra time we got on the clock (and let us not forget, these same cynics were the ones arguing against replacing Biden), and we all suffer because.
We should listen to the people who got it right, to begin with, and who stayed right the whole time. We should ignore those who are guided by cynicism and fear. Sacrificing your values for billionaire donations isn't just morally abhorrent: Its also bad strategy.
Can you look them up, and show them to me? I came close to digging through the modlog myself, to prove that the number of times in Dec 2023 / Jan 2024 that someone was banned for posting a poll showing Biden behind was 0.
I said that with replacing Biden, we'd lose the election, because the exact same arguments that applied to Biden would get applied to Harris, plus some new ones, and all the forces that marshaled a variety of bad-faith bullshit against Biden would start to do the same against Harris, and people in this country literally can't tell up from down when it comes to the election. And, in the election, that's what happened.
A lot of what you're saying happened also, yes. I'm genuinely confused about how you're accusing me of being cynical about it or telling the Democrats to be more right wing. What statements did I make that led you to think that?
Are you genuinely, seriously, trying to pretend that Joe “We beat Medicare” Biden was the better candidate to beat Trump? Bruh.
This absolute baldfaced refusal to accept reality from Democrat loyalists up and down the party structure, makes the whole party look unserious. Team sports, ‘my guy can do no wrong’ horseshit that they also see from the MAGAs, but team red talks game about inflation and the economy - and isn’t the incumbent seen as responsible for it.
Alternate realities, certainly unlike not making a PR at GitHub, rather than unhinged accusations that spent over an hour doubling, tripling, quintupling down for a couple of hours...
Oh dear, he's going down the list of fallacies, after calling us disingenuous, when I clearly attacked unhinged posts.
You attacked me on some totally unrelated topic, instead of addressing anything I said about this topic.
If you disagreed with me about whether or not it's totally cool and normal for Lemmy to send people's admin passwords back to the mothership, you could weigh in over on that topic back when we were talking about that (and I'm pretty sure you did). It's all good, the issue is fixed now whether or not it was an honest mistake in the code, and we all had our say on it.
Now all of a sudden we're talking about some totally different issue, and whether or not anyone in power on Lemmy was "suppressing" or "banning" criticism of the Democrats during the run-up to the election (they were not) is left on the table, forgotten.
Here's more explanation if you need it, with some examples of how attacking past unrelated arguments or issues can be a good example of using ad hominem to deflect from anything about the issue currently under discussion:
https://practicalpie.com/ad-hominem-fallacy/
This is why I always regret it when I go to lemmy.world lol.
Yes, and they've apparently decided to abandon this community in order to wall themselves off from we BoTh SiDeS-ers.
I mean, they lost. And more than just the election. They lost the battle for ideological control of how to do politics; of how to win elections, which was always the premise that justified their reason for being: Their loss is existential.
The core of their argument was that their cynicism was required to win elections. That we had to sacrifice our values, for whatever reason, to be able to "win" the election. To reiterate what our criticisms. Originally, it was with Biden. That without a serious pivot on Gaza and to right wing "enlightened centrism" that had guided his path to that point, he would lose the election. The later criticism was with Harris, and basically identical: That without pivoting and focusing on the issues the base was concerned with, that she would lose the election.
@Phillip_The_Bucket is demonstrating the same cynicism in this thread that lost the election for all of us in his fraudulent interpretation of our critique. The argument wasn't that Biden or Harris should lose. We we're point out that they were losing, and at least some of us where arguing what they needed to do to win. If you were to point out the obvious fact that Biden was polling, somehow below DJT, in Dec 2023/Jan 2024, you would get down voted all to hell, if not outright banned. You would get called a bot. Or an NPC. Or an russian operative. Or any other number of slurs. I presented a scientific analysis showing that it was statistically impossible for Biden to turn things around in March of 2024. It was removed as misinformation and I received a ban for it. This isn't conjecture. Its all documented. Ask @Return2Ozma some of the names they've been called and insults they've had to suffer for simply posting articles that actually reflect reality.
They were wrong to begin with, insisted on staying committed to something that they knew was both a moral and tactical disaster, they were wrong after Biden dropped out, they were wrong up until the day of the election, and they've been wrong since. Alternatively, the exact same critiques we've been levying for years now have become the mainstream interpretation of past events. And now, with Mandami's victory we're showing something even more powerful. That there is real power in doing the right thing and speaking ones truth. And thats simply not possible for those whose politics is based on the false validation cynicism offers.
What i ask myself in all of this is, whether the "sacrifice" of values wasn't genuine. Because if they are willing to compromise on genocide and ethnic cleansing, the question is how much of these values were there to begin with.
And subsequently, if they are somehow "okay" with brown people being mass murdered abroad, how should anyone including these people themselves believe that they would do anything substantial to human rights violations at home. And lo and behold they do very little about it.
Oh they're not. They remain steadfast in their support for both.
Now it's time to hammer home the fact that it's liberals' turn to "vote blue no matter who."
Wouldn't Cuomo not have the (D) next to his name this time?
You’re missing the point. Vote Blue No Matter Who means that competitors are supposed to step aside after a primary and support the winning candidate. In practice, this means they expect the losing progressive candidate to suck it up and support the establishment democrat. Now that a progressive has won the primary, the establishment democrat is refusing to step aside.
So yes, he technically won’t have a D next to his name, but it is well understood that he is an arm of the political machine that is refusing to respect the will of the voters.
Come on, y'all. If we all believe he's a dick, Cuomo can still have his D and eat it, too!
The point is its "vote blue no matter who" until it's against the pro-business centrists in the Democratic party, and then it's "fuck you, we'll run independent and split the vote to let a Republican win!" because they only say that it's important to not let perfect be the enemy of good when it comes to corrupt fuckheads who don't give a single iota of a shit about working class people. They're happy to drop the facade when someone like Mamdani gets in, they'd rather a Republican win than someone with real plans for change.