this post was submitted on 25 Apr 2024
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A top Hamas political official told The Associated Press the Islamic militant group is willing to agree to a truce of five years or more with Israel and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

"Hitler being evil doesn't make the Allies the good guys! They bombed Dresden and killed many German civilians!"

"Everyone who does a war crime is equally evil and if you aren't perfect when you fight back against being Genocided you are equally as evil as the party doing the Genocide!"

Is the PA going to stop israel doing Genocide? Were you doing it? Was America doing it?

Nobody was doing it. Nobody cared. So Hamas fought back. Nobody did anything when they peacefully protested in 2018. Don't complain now.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Hamas "fought back" by breaking down the doors of Israeli homes and slaughtering the families cowering inside. Gunning down teenagers at a music festival and kidnapping the survivors. That wasn't strategy. That was fanatical hatred, cowardly, and evil.

Hamas are cowards, perfectly happy to sit back and watch innocent Palestinians be slaughtered in the aftermath.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The IDF has killed 11 thousand men, 9 thousand women, and 14 thousand children, making 34 thousand total killed (an unknown number of which were civilians). Hamas has killed 0.6 thousand military personnel and 0.8 thousand civilians, making 1.4 thousand total killed (57% of which were civilians).

The number of children killed by Isreal (only children) is 17 times larger than the number of civilians killed by Hamas. Of course that doesn't make killing civilians OK, but I struggle to see an argument that Hamas is worse than the IDF. And if Hamas is the only method by which Palestine can defend itself, then there is a solid argument to be made for it being the lesser evil.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago

Both groups are murderers. One is just better equipped for it. Hamas hasn't killed less civilians out of some kind of restraint or combat disipline, they just don't have the same capability as the IDF. Meanwhile, Israel is gleefully using all the free shit that it's allies are supplying it with to kill every man woman and child in sight. Fuck Hamas. Fuck Israel.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

And accidentally killing 33% IDF soldiers and destroying every military base next to the Gaza strip. Just pure coincidence.

Hamas has the civilian casualty rate which israel claims the IDF has. And israel has to lie about it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

Actually 45% soldiers. 824 civilians were killed and 678 soldiers and police were killed on October 7th, according to Israel.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Hamas killed soldiers so that they would free to go on their rampage against civilians. Israel accidentally kills civilians as they are trying to fight an enemy that hides behind them and camouflages themselves as civilians precisely to blur the lines between civilians and soldiers. That's the difference between the two.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago

Israel isn't accidentally killing anyone. They're stright up murdering civillians. Let's not pretend the IDF is any better than Hamas.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

So

Hamas is killing soldiers "so they can go after the civilians".

Israel is killing civilians "so they can go after the soldiers."

.....

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's not what I said and you know that.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

That is very much what you said you are just twisting reality because the numbers don't fit your narrative. If Hamas wanted to go for maximum civilian casualties they would have attacked deeper into cities.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

I literally don't know if this is true any more.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

If you ever find yourself on either side of asymmetric warfare, and you're killing kids...you're the bad guy.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Good thing Hamas barely killed any kids. Less than 3% of the deaths.

Israel kills 40% children.

Wonder who the bad guy is.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's like I said, it's not one or the other. They are both the bad guys.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Do you call Ukraine the bad guys too for defending themselves?

Every country has soldiers killing innocents.

Every country does war crimes.

Everyone is the bad guys.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

Do you have any proof to back up your statement that Hamas ordered killing of children?

If you expect decency from malnourished oppressed people i would just call you entitled

[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago (1 children)

At some point you might learn that simplistic, childish concepts of pure good and evil rarely apply in this world. Yes, the Allies were the good guys in WW2. Being the good guy doesn't mean you're perfect, because absolutely nothing is.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

At some point you might learn that lesson yourself.

Go find out what the ANC did in South Africa to free themself from their colonizers. Go find out how the Haitans rebelled against their colonizers. Go learn how the American Natives fought back against their colonizers.

Hamas colonial resistance was probably one of the most targeted in all of history with a 33%+ soldier kill rate. But of course nothing is good enough for those that demand absolute perfection from angry people in a concentration camp.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Like the other user said, the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa only became successful after it abandoned violent resistance - and citing Haiti as an aspirational example is downright hysterical.

There's also a massive difference between demanding outright perfection and not applauding people who behead Asian guest workers (who, as I'm sure you are aware, but equally willing to ignore, are not "evil Zionist colonizers") with a rusty gardening hoe while live-streaming the torture-murder on the Internet. Coincidentally, you seem to have no trouble with demanding outright perfection from the IDF, who, by the way, has a roughly similar soldier kill rate in this conflict according to most estimates - but I bet you are not willing to applaud them for that.

As for what Gaza actually was, here's what this supposed "concentration camp" looked like before the war:

https://youtu.be/W1r1z3x53ZU

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The other user got history completely wrong. As do you. Consider reading about Apartheid South Africa and Mandela first. Mandela was very violent near the end.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Telling lies again? This sounds exactly like the Hamas beheads babies story. Israeli propaganda became so lazy.

Fuck Hamas and what they did, but compared to the genocidal Israelis they are saints and I’m tired of reading all these unproven horror stories of what Hamas allegedly did while Israel is literally using an AI to murder children.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I've watched that beheading and worse things. I wish I hadn't. Imagine having the audacity of calling Hamas saints by comparison. What a despicable and inane thing to do.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (2 children)

The ANC in South Africa was largely ineffective. Mandela specifically is a great example of how people can get much more done as moderates than violent radicals. He would never see any sort of true progress until after his imprisonment and subsequent putting down of arms.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I recommend reading about the ANC before posting about it because the literal opposite happened. You got the American fairy tale propaganda version.

What really happened is that after his imprisonment for peaceful protesting, Nelson Mandela realized that Apartheid Nazis don't listen to words so he started leading a violent resistance and got put on the American terror watch list.

Nelson Mandela’s legacy: As a leader, he was willing to use violence

To many South Africans, particularly within the African National Congress, Mandela was a great man partly because of his willingness to use violence, not in spite of it.

Many believe apartheid would have endured much longer if he hadn’t rebelled and overturned the ANC’s long-standing nonviolence policy.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You are talking about young Mandela. He went to prison for 20 years and changed his mind about a lot of things.

It was only when all else had failed, when all channels of peaceful protest had been barred to us, that the decision was made to embark on violent forms of political struggle.

https://www.azquotes.com/quote/658964

Hamas is not a protest organization. They pick up the gun first, not last. They have direct connections to Iran and Syria, who could put more diplomatic pressure in favor of a peaceful solution. But none of them want that.

They want to kill for revenge and domestic support and personal gain. Someone like that will never make peace. Just like Netanyahu.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Hamas is not a protest organization. They pick up the gun first, not last.

If you just ignore the peaceful Great March of Return your argument makes sense

Too bad that Hamas did do a peaceful march first, probably knowing that israel would never respond to it. But they still did it. Why? o cover themselves against baseless accusations like those of yourself that would bring up that "they should have tried something peaceful first".

Hamas did a peaceful protest. Israel massacred them.

Someone like that will never make peace.

You can scroll up and read this article. It says Hamas wants peace. Who doesn't want peace? Israel.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

That's not a clean experiment. Moderation gives you nothing when the oppressing side knows you can't do violence.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Pick pretty much any conflict other than WWII. Like WWI. All bastards.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's the fun part about ww2. People in concentration camps makes everything very black and white.

Unless they are brown I guess.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

It's not a concentration camp, it's just a non-exitable area surrounded by barbed wire with not enough food let in. (mostly /s, the OG camps were worse, but really, is that the bar we want to set?)

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