this post was submitted on 02 May 2024
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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (9 children)

As a person with no horse in the grinder, why is requiring ID a good thing in England/EU a good thing, but bad in the USA?

I’m very confused.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 year ago (3 children)

As someone who comes from a country where we do require photo ID for voting, not requiring one feels absurd, so I asked the same question. Apparently in the US, there is a part of the population that doesn't normally get photo ID and that part is mostly poor people and minorities and photo ID laws are used as means of disenfranchisement, similar to having the voting days during business days (when many people can't come to vote) or having voting stations far away in an area with limited public transport options.

Where I live in Finland, the police will actually grant you a temporary photo ID only for voting if you don't have one, although most people have passports. There are early voting stations in basically every post office for a week and the main voting day is always on a Sunday. No excuse to miss voting.

I've only missed one voting during my life, at a time when I was living in another country and there was no consulate in the part of the country I was in. Nowadays there's also the option of mail-in voting when outside the country, I don't know if it wasn't a thing back then or I just didn't know.

That's not to say I didn't want some improvements in our system: I'd like to see ranked choice voting or something similar here, there are some smaller parties I've been voting and it seems they seldom have a chance.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We've never really needed to use photo ID in England and never had problems with fraud. You can only visit one polling station one time, the system worked fine. The Tories changed it to deliberately disenfranchise the poor who are less likely to have these types of ID, and they did this because they're scum.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I feel like there's a simple solution: Government issues free photo IDs to everyone, you need to pay for it if you destroy/lose it while it's still valid.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There was an ID card system in the works in the UK a few years ago, but it was scrapped. There was a lot of opposition to it ok the grounds of civil liberties and privacy.

There’s a lot of wariness about a “paper’s please” society in the country, there hasn’t been a national ID system since just after WW2. Driver’s licenses and passports are used a sort of substitute, but even the UK drivers license doesn’t have to be carried to actually drive.

The proposed ID card system was also attached to an identity database system that was considered to have a lot of features creep and be too invasive.

A free, simple ID card system would probably make a lot of sense (the existing drivers license system could be repurposed/expanded for it), but there’s just a lot of uneasiness about it among the British for better or worse.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's where you guys draw the line? With automated facial recognition vans, CCTV everywhere, among other things, the UK is certainly not a country that comes to mind when I think "civil liberties and privacy".

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

To be fair when they say recently they mean about 20 years ago. It was the Blair government that were looking to do this when I was at school in the early 2000s.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

France does this.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That really brings into perspective. Thank you. This is WILD.

Quick edit; how is voting not work time off for fucking EVERYONE

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I'd like to see ranked choice voting or something similar here, there are some smaller parties I've been voting and it seems they seldom have a chance.

Ranked choice voting would make sense maybe in the presidential elections, but otherwise all elections in Finland are D'Hondt method proportional representation, with open lists. Ranked choice would bring nearly zero benefits, and lots of complication to the vote counting process.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Voting ID requirements have not been universally seen as a good thing in the UK, there’s been a lot of opposition to it.

There is no national ID in the UK, instead there is a patchwork of secondary ID systems such as passports, drivers licenses, travel cards etc. In most cases they have a monetary cost or are not universally available.

It’s been seen as an attempt at voter suppression as many poorer British people may not have suitable ID. The rules also reject many forms of ID commonly held by younger voters, while accepting a wider range of ID held be older voters. There is supposed to be a free voting ID available but implantation has been left to local councils and has been criticised as hard to access.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There is no national ID in the UK

This is so wild.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Your National Insurance number is as close as it gets. Similar to Social security number in America. Receive it at 16 and it doesn't change except in cases of fraud. A record of all taxe and National Insurance contributions you make. Goes towards pension.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's bad in the USA because they have an aversion to all forms of registration.

It's unnecessary in most of Europe because they already have functional registries.

I don't know enough about UK election procedures to figure out why they thought it was necessary. It's probably not, but it's easy points for someone wanting to signal that they're doing something against the fictional illegal immigrants who are supposedly voting en masse whenever the right wing politicians don't get their way..

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

The US (mostly the trending fascist party) does whatever possible to make sure the least amount of people possible get the opportunity to vote and for the people who do vote, make sure their vote does not count as much as possible. It also varies per state.

  • not giving out a national identification card, but then requiring an identification card to vote

  • voting districts with crazy borders to make absolute certain that the far right gets the most representatives possible https://www.maproomblog.com/xq/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/wapost-gerrymander-1024x687.jpg

  • reducing the amount of voting centers every year in areas like major cities that vote more left so that the people would have to travel an hour or more to vote and without a car, it is almost impossible

  • Voting is not a public holiday and many states do not allow voting by mail. Combined with the before point removes many poor people's ability to vote at all

  • there is a right wing effort to remove as many left leaning votors as possible from registration for minor errors

  • Armed party members at elections recently to intimidate voters, especially if they "look like the left demographic"

  • the "electoral college" which can just decide to not cast the vote that actually decides elections for the candidates that the citizens voted for

It is really batshit crazy over there. It seems like the right gets away with all of this crazy stuff and then when the left is back in power, almost nothing is done to change it back with regards to voting.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Tories who were in power pushed it based on right wing conspiracy theories about immigrants because vulnerable populations least likely to have government documentation vote overwhelmingly labour.

It didn't really work though because old people also often let their passport and driving license lapse, department of work and pensions also already uses heavy handed documentation requirements as a way of fucking over people with mental health issues, criminal records, poverty etc who are less likely to have ID so the amount of people with ID in those groups is uncharacteristically high.

So yeah it's a bit of a nothing really, reduces voters on all sides but mostly the left and doesn't really seem to do much else.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

One of the rights many mottos is "if it hurts everyone terribly, but hurts the left even a little bit more, then it's a good plan and we should do it".

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

In Europe, people have an ID since they are born. And, you need it to go to your neighboring countries which are never far away. Not having an ID is quite rare. You even have countries delivering it for free.

Also note that passports are valid IDs.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Can't speak for the UK/EU, but in the US, there's a long history of state governments trying to disenfranchise minority voters, especially in the South where slavery was legal for longer. This was accomplished in the past with so-called "literacy tests," and more recently by closing certain polling booths or understaffing them. Since millions of Americans don't have IDs that fit strict standards, many see these voter-ID laws as another form of disenfranchisement.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

It's a bad thing everywhere. The Tories brought it in because they thought it would suppress voters who were likely to vote against them.