this post was submitted on 22 May 2024
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Its very simple.
If you think it's bad now, for you, for Palestinians, for whoever, wait until Trump is in power. He'll commit actual genocide, as in wipe them all out, as he claimed anyways, he'll install himself as a dictator, as he claimed, and I'm not even starting with that Republican 2025 document that would like to make America into Gilead.
So shit up, swallow your pride, vote Biden. as soon as Biden is elected, protest all you want, block roads, whatever, but for now, vote Biden if you want the world to at least survive the next four years semi recognizably.
An actual genocide is happening right now. If biden doesn't feel pressured to stop the genocide at the risk of losing votes in an election year, what makes you think he'll stop it when he's not at any risk of losing the election?
I don't think he'll stop. But from a practical standpoint you're voting between the status quo level of genocide, and an even GREATER level of genocide. Voting for MORE genocide is objectively worse.
If anything, he'll interpret a victory as a mandate.
Perhaps. But Trump will ALSO interpret victory as a mandate, as he's ALREADY interpreted LOSS as a mandate, and so we're clear on his stance...
I'm not worried that my vote will be interpreted by Trump as a mandate to support genocide, because I'm not voting for Trump.
Completely understood. Not implying you would. Just trying to impress as a matter of general statement how important it is that he NOT win. He will interpret victory as a mandate. I know everyone is sick of hearing it, but it is so important that it bears repeating as much as the discourse can support, because the voices claiming a noble ideological victory from abstention have no such qualms about flooding the conversation wherever they can.
Several genocides are going on right now, and have been for decades, almost like it's got nothing to do with who's in charge in the US or something.
What kind of sociopathic hand waving is this? This is like if a strawman had a child with whataboutism and all it ate was apathy.
No, it's a European telling you to stop believing your own hype.
The US is not the center of the universe, your support matters but you alone are not the factor that is going to save or doom Palestine.
Vote based on what's best for your own country and realise that we neither expect you nor want you to solve everything you deem to be an issue.
I mean this emphatically: if you're not an american, you do not want americans to vote for what is best for their country.
Literally nothing good (or maybe almost nothing good, depending on who's asking) has come from America pursuing its interests abroad.
It is so funny how you keep spewing right wing nationalist nonsense while feebly attemptig to care about a genocide
We send billions to israel every year and have only greatly ramped up the support as israel has ramped up the genocide. If the US simply stopped that support, it would go a long way. Following your logic, people get murdered all the time, so we shouldn't do anything about murder, even if we're the ones directly enabling the murderers.
Odds are better for Biden. Slim is better than none.
Get it clear: this isn't a vote about Biden. It's a vote about America and it's a clean binary choice between two bad options; one worse than the other. If you don't choose the far-less-worse imperfect option, you need to be okay with the worse imperfect option if it should emerge victorious.
The odds aren't slim for biden stopping this, it's simply zero. Democrats rely on republicans being worse so that they have an excuse to do nothing. If you have two parties, one that preserves the status quo and the other that makes things worse, then things are only going to get worse because republicans are eventually going to win in our intentionally broken system.
The city is on fire and people are arguing whether we should vote for the shitty fire fighter in the fire chief election when the only other candidate is literally an arsonist
This would be a funny bit if you weren't being sincere.
It's no secret that the majority of all these "But Biden Bad" posts are written by right-wingers trying to sway voter opinions and shift attention away from Trump's evilness. It's the same playbook as in the run-up to the 2020 election.
Lol. Yeah, and my barber is a secret CIA agent and the checkout clerk at the grocery was secretly a lizard person, of course I don't have a shred of evidence and there's no evidence that could falsify these beliefs, but it's consistent with my previous encounters with lizardfolk and CIA agents.
What a truly fascinating worldview you have.
COUNTER-THEORY: all of the 'but trump worse' posts are written by fascist dickheads trying to guarantee the palestinian genocide keeps happening
See how unfalsifiable that is? Almost not even worth saying, if you ask me
Can we stick to the facts please?
"Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interest in the region." - Joe Biden, 1986
Israel is the west's vehicle for imperialism in the middle east. It was created by the British through imperialist action and the US has been one of the biggest supporters since. So yes, the US has a huge say in what Israel can do because Israel owes its entire existence to the US and the west at large. If Israel feels so mighty and independent, then they're free to return the hundreds of billions in aid that we've given them and to stop receiving the billions we send them every single year and to not have us fight wars for them.
You're vastly overestimating the power the US has. We can't even get our allies to stop funding Russia and selling them advanced technology.
The only people capable of stopping what is happening in Gaza are Netanyahu and the Israeli people.
The US is directly sending billions in support to israel. In fact, many of our allies in Europe are doing so much more for the Palestinians than the US. You'd have a point if the US weren't the #1 direct supporter of israel. Do you think the US is sending billions of dollars directly to Russia?
Yeah, but Biden's not the one committing it. Biden is an incidental element of a much larger apparatus and if that apparatus is primarily meant to commit this particular genocide, he's not a particularly effective one.
Literally nothing. No one is arguing that borderline unconditional support will make Biden change his mind. Why would you even ask? On the other hand, if making Biden think he's gonna lose won't sufficiently motivate him, then threatening to not vote is just an ineffective strategy. Your premise undermines the conclusion you seem to be hinting at.
Hey, did you know gullible is written on the ceiling?
I always like to ask in these circumstances if they send over the aid and the bombs on the same ship
This is about preserving a system that's at least recoverable in it's current state. If you don't vote for Biden your voting for an authoritarian regime and it's not even an exaggeration. Trump just had a promo video referencing a new Reich in America.
This is the easiest decision American voters have ever had. Go look up what happened when Trump was in power for 4 years and what has happened with Biden for 4 years. We have data on how they both acted in power. That's incredibly rare. Compare them objectively.
Moral high ground about Israel, while correct, is a hill compared to the mountain of evidence that shows what has happened and will continue to happen under trump if he returns to power. State secrets for sale, supreme Court seats, threats to never relinquish power, codified laws hunting down women who seek abortions, laws against trans and gays, j6 insurrection....you're actively supporting that by not standing against trump.
Abstaining from voting for Biden this fall is a vote for Trump in a first past the post system. You will be complicit. You will literally be responsible for violence against minorities having played an active part in helping trump return to power. It's hypocritical to allow that while condemning Biden on Israel.
I get it, I promise. I didn't vote for Hillary or Trump in 2016 and I see now what that ended up doing to our country. I regret it. I won't do it again.
It's impossible to reconcile your disgust for Israeli support from America with the violence you will permit to minorities in America if you don't vote for Biden. You're not wrong for hating it, but you must realize what you're going to do to people with a no vote or a throwaway vote.
Democrats preserve the status quo while republicans push things further to the right. Since our system guarantees that both parties will win at different times, the trajectory is always to the right. I'm voting for democrats down the entire ballot like I do every single election, but it will ultimately not make a meaningful difference. Democrats are using minorities as a shield for their own failings and inaction. If you don't vote for democrats then they claim it's your fault for whatever situation minorities find themselves in, but democrats do the bare minimum they can for minorities when they do get voted in. You're providing a prime example when you use minorities in the US as an excuse to change the subject from genocide in Palestine.
"Identity politics" is a loaded term, but democrats will absolutely play different disadvantaged groups against one another to stop progress. They did it in 2016 when Bernie was talking about the need to help poor people and democrats came out with "but what about poor black people?!" even though democrats don't do shit for poor black people either and as if poor black people aren't included in the group of poor people.
The older I get the more I realize that the only way to change anything is to be a massive, endlessly annoying prick. Sure, vote or whatever, but if you don't like the options provided I think the least (literally the least) one can do is to - and this will sound silly - relentlessly meme on centrists to agitate them to do something.
even the ancient romans understood that a solid anonymous dunk posted on a statue can sometimes be the most agitative kind of messaging.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, as the saying goes. My only hope as far as voting goes is that democrats get a majority so large that they can't just conveniently flip two senators to continue to do nothing. I feel like democrats purposefully eek out the smallest victories they can so they can pretend to be powerless. It's either that or they're ridiculously incompetent, neither inspire confidence. They're just too good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Regardless, their excuses and lack of results will be even more flagrant if they're given a huge majority.
Because the ballot box is not the only means of civic duty. Contine protests, ramp up activisim, engage in our society more than just voting once every 4 years.
The democrats will ignore all those too.
Did a democrat ignore you? Have you tried calling for them to be nuked?
I think you misunderstand; bad faith fuckwits only get one of every four years to spread the disinformation. And this is an election year, I'm loving all the sino/rusky/Iranian players trying so hard to sway the vote.
(We're all laughing at you, you're only seeing upvotes in your echochamber that has hidden down votes. This is the reality of the world and you're hiding from it).
It's a war.
That's all you can come up with for your strawman.
Plenty of people find accusations of genocide by Israel to be misinformed.
These people are genocide deniers.
That is how they teach negotiation in school