this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2024
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Wait until they find out how much it's going to cost them to repaint the jets that they vandalized.
Damn, guess it’s better to let the environment collapse and our species to go extinct because capitalism and money is more important.
I didn't say that I disagreed with their goals. I just understand that they did hundreds of thousands of pounds of damage to those jets that will make absolutely zero difference to their carbon footprint and will probably be held financially responsible. A big win for the activists for sure.
With an ASBO and jail time, without convincing anyone, and hardening public opinion against their cause. A big win for the extremists for sure.
How does this harden public opinion against their cause? This is the type of shit we want to see. There's a difference between this and inconveniencing those who are commuting to work.
Activists doing things activists like to see, won't motivate many others than the people who already are motivated.
We were all clueless about this at one time. Conversations like this educate people, I think it's obvious a lot more people will be upset with the emissions of private jets after this, than before the group vandalized.
But this is the point. Conversations will do it, activists like this won't. I don't think its obvious or even feasible, that many or any will change their mind about emissions based on these activists vandalizing planes.
I do support the cause, but I don't understand the means
I wrote that badly. I wanted to say that this sort of activism is valuable because it starts conversations like this. Which educates people, raising awareness.
Its fair but looking through the discussions here it seems like mostly people discussing the efficiency of demonstrations and supporting each other on it being the right thing to do (and a few dis agreeing on that too). But it seems like the point of the discussion is not the environmental crisis but the demonstration and vandalism
I dont see many becoming convinced or becoming aware about the environmental crisis, who were not already aware.
Oh I didn't notice that.
Took a quick look at Reddit and it's more encouraging. Some posts have a fair number of comments about private jet emissions, others posts didn't have a single one about it.
How can you be sure they don’t convince anyone? I’m not sure, but I think you made that up - as it matches what you feel
Do you think it convinced the motorists who have beaten them and dragged them off the road by their hair? Or the people responsible for the preservation of Stone Henge? Or the wealthy people whose jets they painted? I can't prove a negative, of course, or religion would be gone but you may be right, they may have convinced someone.
At least they tried, instead of just discussing the form of protest on the internet. History will prove them right.
And I built a straw bale house 20 years ago that saves 75% on heating and cooling over my next door neighbours smaller house. I am making a real difference by making personal changes instead of trying to ram my moral superiority down other people's throats.
Fom the article:
Oxfam:
I think what you built is legitimately cool but your efforts are erased many times over by a single flight these people take. I think thats enough to suggest you shouldnt empathise with the rich being given an inconvenient message, not that it was meant to change their minds, its to raise awareness in us, the general populace.
Also, we need systemic change, not just individual effort. We will have energy needs irrespective of how efficient we make things, and political pressure is how we will force away from fossil fuels.
No doubt. My point was that I'm actually taking concrete action to dramatically reduce my own carbon footprint rather than pissing off a bunch of people whose support I really need for my cause by trying to ram my misguided sense of moral superiority down their throats.
Oh no!
Anyway...
Who cares about that, the rich can foot the bill.
They will and they won't care. It will do nothing to change anyone's mind but will harden public opinion against the extremists.
I don't think the general public cares about Taylor Swift needing to get her jet re-painted. Only Swifties will care.
No, but the public have shown that they are frustrated with the extremists and the courts have handed down multi-year sentences of incarceration in a growing number of cases. The public react with revulsion to extremists.
We should be extreme in our opposition to the climate disaster currently unfolding. The heat is extreme, the hurricanes extreme, the drought is extreme, the crop failures are extreme and the dead and dying ecosystems are extreme.
We the public have been politely asking for climate solutions for decades while the extremist oil and gas companies hid the extent of their knowledge from us and used lies to convince half the population nothing is wrong. Even now, the oil and gas lobby lie and plan for expansion into poorer countries where western regulations can't touch touch them. They'll burn every drop, take every dollar, and Fuck over everything in doing it.
So you know what? When I see these people throwing paint on things, gluing themselves down, and causing tension I say good, good for them, be extreme. These protestors have convinced me over the last couple of years with these acts and nothing they've done is anywhere near as extreme as climate change.
Climate change is killing people, right now, probably thousands every year, that's fucking extreme and its getting worse. These protestors threw paint on objects.
very well written
Maybe it will work. I guess we'll see if they can convince the people who control the governemnt, military, and police that a few people glued to the road should change their unchecked avarice.
Well it would help an awful lot for so called moderate allies to stop whinging over the methods and start focusing on the message. Everyone who pours into a comment section to opine over their "agreeing with the cause, but not the act of protest" is carrying water for the oil companies. It's these people who help establish and maintain the permission structure for the out of hand dismissal of climate protests.
We should be uncomfortable with protests, people should be made to feel discomfort, tension, and cognitive dissonance. These things work to end injustice better than all the polite ignorable protests that have ever happened.
Dude, calm down. I live in a straw bale house. I've been doing my part since before most of these people gluing themselves to roadways were born. I do something useful every election and vote for the parties that are for saving the environment.
This isn't "a few people glued to a road," this is a threat. "Fix society, or tensions will escalate."
The way you keep minimizing these efforts tell me you either don't really understand protests or are actively trying to make them seem trivial.
I saw you complaining earlier about them "shoving moral superiority down your throat," which is curious. It's like your biggest problem with them is just that you have to hear about it.
I'm sure your shed is nice. We need other people to build nice sheds.
I’m getting more and more sure - you’re just making things up claiming to know what the “public” thinks. Did you call up 1800 British people to know this or are you just assuming everyone thinks like you do?
No, you're probably right. They might have convinced someone.
The public who would otherwise care so much about this nightmare that we keep barrelling towards... people who use that "frustration with extremists" are just justifying to themselves what they would have done anyway, which is nothing.
Why is it that you keep referring to them as extremists? You seem bad faith as fuck all over this post.
They believe that their actions are justified because they believe that they are morally superior. They are self-absolving. That is the hallmark of extremists of all types.
That's why.
Why do you think that about them? Is that based on anything that's actually in reality?
It is obvious that they feel justified in inconveniencing or endangering hundreds or thousands of people at a time by blocking roads and bridges, invading the stage at performances, etc. Any one of those people could be rushing home to meet their children, or to a hospital to see a dying parent, or facing the loss of their job if they're late. An inattentive HGV driver could plow into the back of stopped traffic and kill people. But, it's totally ok because their motives are pure. That's self-absolution. That is the hallmark of an extremist.
I think that's true for Stone Henge, the Mona Lisa, gluing themselves to roads, etc.
I think targeting high profile extremely wealthy people is different and will be much more effective. I guess time will tell.
Perhaps. With the near iron grip that the wealthy have on most governments I don't expect anything to change because a few people glued themselves to the road or threw a bit of paint on some rich assholes jets.
Actually about 0$ because they always use stuff thats removable with water. Otherwise they would be bankrupt.
Plus trespass at the airport plus cleaning and testing all of the external instrumentation plus...they can really stack it on.
It looks like turmeric
Can't squeeze blood from a stone. The cost to repaint those jets is going to be a lot more than they can ever recoup from the activists.
It's apparently water soluable so the paint should come off easily. The expensive part is going to be cleaning the engines and external instruments if they need to be cleaned and reccalibrated or recertified. The courts have been handing out serious sentences running into the multiple years so they may have that coming as well.
I'm not aware of any committed activist that was ever deterred by a prison sentence. But they are usually pretty poor so my original point stands.
Well at least they won't have to worry about feeding, clothing, and housing themselves for a while.
Lol yeah
Edit to add - I meant to add, and they'll find a whole bunch of disaffected people ripe for recruiting to a direct action cause. But my ADHD brain forgot. :(