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If "Master/Slave" terminology in computing sounds bad now, why not change it to "Dom/Sub"?
(lemmy.dbzer0.com)
this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2024
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Showerthoughts
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while in some ways I can see your point, I would just have a hard time saying this in a work meeting here in the deep south with black colleagues present
Isn't the inverse - "I asked x number of black people and they were OK with it" or even "I assume y% number of black people are ok with it" subject to the same criticism?
I am white so we're probably getting to the edge of propriety in this conversation.
Or isn’t the other half of that …… if you have a toxic personality and wish to change that, there may be no single fix but to pay more attention to many small habits contributing to that toxicity.
This whole conversation reminds me of the similar one many years ago, about crude jokes and pictures/calendars in the workplace. The dominant population said exactly the same things. However now we’re all more professional and work is much less toxic, not just for women, minorities, people with different preferences, but also less toxic for us white male heteros as well. We all won that one
Whitelist and Blacklist is on that stack as well.
Bro I fucking said “whitelist” in a meeting and got so many glares, fuck all of these fucking uneducated pieces of shit that can only punch down because they know nothing except “DATS RACIST”
Fucking thermodynamics is racist guys
Black absorbs, white reflects
Blackhole, sun
fuck these people
Are we back to the fetish-based terminology?
If I had to guess, it's just the general "white=good black=bad" which itself is likely related to day/night.
But it's easy to imagine a bouncer at a club with a list of whites allowed in and blacks that aren't. I don't think that's the etymology, but it's also important to remember that language is alive and words can take on unintended meaning.
I didn't mean that it originated with bouncers, I meant I imagined it coming to be associated with race in such a way 😅
Idk if that's for white folks like me (and you?) to decide, and there is no harm on erring on the side of caution.
It's like the deal with micro-aggressions. Alone they're not much, but a constant buildup of these little things can leave someone feeling raw and very sensitive to it.
I don't think the etymology started with race, I think it started with day/night. But I'm not an expert on etymology, and while I'm very curious, it probably doesn't really matter here.
I think it's difficult to separate the two, they form a feedback loop. It's like the broken window theory.
People see these little ambiguously exclusionary acts, and if they see enough of them then they get the subconscious message that exclusionary acts are ok, and the (possibly accidental) targets of the acts get the subconscious message that they're not welcome which makes the subject raw and sensitive and primes them to look at acts through that lens.
In college I took a class on how humans and computers interact, and one of the things my professor was passionate about was how the terminology of programming languages tended to be exclusionary to women. Not explicitly so, but just using violent language that women were raised to find uncomfortable (eg killing a process), and it was pushing women out of computer science.
This was like 15 years ago, and he was already passionate about it at the time, so this isn't really a new thing, its just getting broader attention.
I don't know if that's happening here, but it costs nothing to change so even a potential minor improvement is worth it.
There are many problems and many solutions. We don't need to focus on one problem and pick only one solution.
My entire point here was that there is concern that industry jargon can be accidentally exclusionary to some demographics, interest and research on it isn't new, and the effect is usually a "death by a thousand cuts" type thing, like migroaggressions are.
I didn't specialize in this, so my knowledge on it is from one part of one class I took like 15 years ago, but I can absolutely see how it could matter.
People aren't rational and society doesn't raise us rationally. We can be perfectly ok with something in one context but not ok with it in another context. We can be ok with one thing, but not ok with another similar thing.
I agree there are deeper societal issues about how we raise boys and the incentives/traumas we put on kids. That doesn't mean we cant pick off this low hanging fruit at no cost.
It's important to meet people where they are, not where we think they should be.
This solution is zero effort
It does. Ask POC
It's zero effort to change jargon like this.
We can do both. That was a bold false dichotomy
If your argument is that neurodivergent people can't switch from "whitelist" to "allowlist" I think that says more about your personality than neurodivergency.
Ok there, that sounds like a pile of FUD to prevent progress
Ok there psychology genius. Tell us how to do this and receive your nobel prize
I'm done replying to your novel length piles regressive bullshit and excuses dressed up in polite language.
Tldr your novella of regressive FUD.
You can't get a perfect solution so you refuse to accept any solution is the Hallmark of the disingenuous redpill in disguise.
Go sell your snake oil elsewhere
Still peddling FUD?
IDK, I didn't read it. Piss off with your disingenuous "no solution is good enough" anti-progressive bullshit
For most people it's a lot more simple and subconscious than that. White=positive, black=negative. Most people do not consciously apply this to race, but they don't have to for the subconscious association to take root.