This assumes workers own the means of production.
Under capitalism, boss tells all the workers to get fucked.
this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2024
1001 points (100.0% liked)
Political Memes
8779 readers
3285 users here now
Welcome to politcal memes!
These are our rules:
Be civil
Jokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.
No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
Posts should be memes
Random pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.
No bots, spam or self-promotion
Follow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.
No AI generated content.
Content posted must not be created by AI with the intent to mimic the style of existing images
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
That which ought to be is not influenced by what is. It's true that worker control over the means of production is preferable to capitalism, but neither scenario here actually requires it. In fact, if the economy is fully automated, it would imply that the means of production couldn't be owned by the workers, since there wouldn't be any. That's how you get post-scarcity space communism. Socialism would ensure the longevity and existence of an arrangement that results in automation leading to better lives for everyone rather than human extinction. However, I'm beginning to suspect that with the time frame we're working with, aiming for socialism to the detriment of achieving any such arrangement might be a serious misplay on our part. Of course, that opens the possibility for humanity to be subjugated by an oppressive regime of immortal cyborg oligarchs. Even so, this horrifying possibility still preserves the opportunity for rebellion and revolution to set things aright whereas extinction would be ultimate defeat.
You just accidentally described both The Dune Universe, and The Warhammer 40K Universe.
Yay, a robot took over my job! Now I am free to closely monitor it until I stop caring about the mistakes!
Edit: And get fired!
If I have no job, I have no money.
Who's going to buy the stuff these robots are building?
The search for short term profits doesn't give a fuck
That's next quarter's problem
it's a monster and no one is in control of it. it must be destroyed.
Other rich people. Robots will just stop making $10k cars and start making yachts. Rich people will just keep the game going between themselves.
If people don't have money, people can't buy the goods being produced, demand will plummet and supply will skyrocket leading to the logical conclusion that a UBI is necessary to supplement life in an automated world. If that doesn't happen, I Guess revolution?
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(4 replies)
Automate your job but don't tell your boss.
Automate, but maje sure you take ownership of the production and get paid accordingly. Your tip is usually the best way to accomplish it.
unless you can spin it into a business to business service that you can sell after leaving the company to many more and paid more than your job's salary.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
Capitalism be like "NOPE! NOT TODAY! NOT EVER! YOU WILL WORK UNTIL YOU DIE OR YOU WILL DIE WHILE SOMEONE ELSE DOES YOUR WORK!"
Hard to blame this specifically on Capitalism because it doesn't force working forever, it just doesn't have a mechanism to prevent it. You CAN save all your money and retire at 40.
Democratic-Capitalism brings us the social safety net which usually DOES have a specific mechanism to allow for retirement at a certain age. So that proves those things are not incompatible, Capitalism isn't working against retirement, it's just not focused on retirement at all.
If corporations cared more about people and less about money this may just work.
Until there is no longer a massive bill to start a company this is a pipe dream. Who's name is the mortgage under is all you have to ask before the model breaks down...
load more comments
(5 replies)
everyone here should look at the Venus Project. We keep struggling to understand how automation makes sense in a capitalist society. SPOILER: it doesn't. The entire system has to be re-imagined or we perish and the owners flourish (without us).
Yeah the owners are always going to get the labor as cheap as possible. There is no way you'll get profits from a. Company that literally doesn't employ you.
In the right hand pic the person doesn't work for the company. Why does the pic imply they do?
If a company is fully automated and has no workers do they pay everyone? Lol
load more comments
(1 replies)
We should tax every company the equivalent of all the workers' salaries (adjusted for modern cost of living) they automate out of a job and use the money to fund a UBI.
I can only imagine what the cost of food would be under your proposed plan if implemented for all technological advancements over the past 500 years.
One of the biggest benefits of automation for the masses is that things get cheaper and more widely available. By maintaining the status quo and keeping prices high QOL would stagnate or decline.
Seeing how the US handles healthcare and social security is all you need to know about the future of any said plans for UBI. It's a nice idea but the republicans are going to drain it dry the second they get majority.
I would also propose that any company where someone is making more than the cost of living is automatically garnished to the amount extraneous, again to contribute to UBI. Under this system republicans can't exist because there is no corporations with enough money to bribe politicians.
load more comments
(2 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
To be the devils advocate here, how would that system be fair to workers not replaced by robots? Like if im a plumber i still gotta put in my 40+ hrs/week but a factory worker just gets UBI now?
Everyone would get UBI. Nobody would be forcing you to keep your plumbing job. And even if you stuck around, you wouldn't have to work 40+ hours plumbing weeks because UBI would give you the ability to chose what dmjobs youd want to take on. And maybe now that those factory workers aren't stuck in factories, some of them might actually want to learn how to be plumbers, meaning more plumbers to take on jobs.
I highly doubt most people are just going to pick up a trade as if it is a hobby if they are getting a UBI
I know this is a popular perception, but it doesn't allign with the results of experiments where random citizens were granted an UBI.
https://www.givedirectly.org/2023-ubi-results/
Huh would you look at that, in the UBI experiments it actually gave people more freedom to do the kind of work they wanted to do.
load more comments
(14 replies)
have you like, ever seen people in retirement? they start doing labour just to entertain themselves.
load more comments
(4 replies)
To be another devil’s advocate here, who’s paying for all the free shit these people are getting while they’re not working?
Tax companies a % of what they save by reducing head count. Salary, benefits, insurance, everything. They still save $, but not as much - they pay into a fund for UBI. And eliminate loan interest tax deductions for loans (totalling) over $X (some reasonable threshold that doesn't penalize middle class mortgage holders).
And to the poster above, UBI is for everyone, so those still working get UBI plus a paycheck - that's how it's fair.
We are NOT economically prepared for the renaissance coming. And our octogenarian leaders don't even understand how to set up a printer. Something's gotta give or the economy will collapse. Some estimates are up to 25% of jobs in the next 10 years.
The basics of Supply and Demand. If automation means more consistent and bigger Supply, then prices will* come down and more of the Demand will be able to afford the goods and services in the Supply. Larger supply means cheaper prices, possibly to the point where value becomes basically meaningless.
*assuming that Supply isn't artificially limited by the owners of industry to protect their own profits. If only someone wrote a series of books and pamphlets about how the owners would do everything they can to protect their profits.
load more comments
(3 replies)
The folks that don't want them building guillotines in their spare time. Remember kids, guillotines cure economic anxiety.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Or you put in 16 hours a week, and some other people do the rest of the hours.
On the other hand, we could also train the factory workers to become assistant consultants, or give them some other bullshit job...
40+ hrs/week
Isn't that the thing? We automatize so much and instead of getting the 20hrs/week, we struggel so much to improve efficiency. But for what? There are sectors I agree with that approach (like medicine, climate impact and so on). But if I have to use the same smartphone technology for 10 years or don't upgrade to an 8k TV in the next 20 years, that is utterly fine by me, if that means that I'll have to wrk 20hours less per week.
the devil's* advocate
load more comments
(1 replies)
Many inventions created to "free people" ended up landing them with expectations to work even harder with their newfound "free time"—and they ended up being pigeon-holed into more limited jobs. This is especially true for women as appliances were created to help free them from domestic duties, but they have been landed into still doing those and working full-time or more.
If you make the person on the right to be the next generation over, this picture is pretty accurate. Take a simple example: watch repair shops have gone out of business due to electronics - that sucked for them, but we're actually in a better place because of them.
Artisans being put out of work isn't better for society. Watch makers were a type of artisan.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Would you think you'd be better off without electronics? Are you saying you'd rather live in a world where clocks were mechanical and you had to take them to a repair shop every now and then? Is your life worse because watchmaker is not a common trade anymore?
Would you think you'd be better off without electronics?
No. It isn't a zero sum game.
Are you saying you'd rather live in a world where clocks were mechanical and you had to take them to a repair shop every now and then?
Some of them, yes.
Is your life worse because watchmaker is not a common trade anymore?
Yes. I wasn't able to get my great grandfather's pocket watch repaired.
load more comments
(1 replies)
What a weird example
this could be reality right now if we overthrew the owners. who keeps the owners in power? the conservative right. property is an unalienable right to them. what can we do? destroy the conservative right by any means necessary.
load more comments
(1 replies)
view more: next ›