A community for a webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language.
xkcd #2942: Fluid Speech
Alt text:
Thank you to linguist Gretchen McCulloch for teaching me about phonetic assimilation, and for teaching me that if you stand around in public reading texts from a linguist and murmuring example phrases to yourself, people will eventually ask if you're okay.
I once met a girl in a bar who spoke such absolutely perfect and grammatically correct German she did sound like an alien impersonating a human.
Or someone who very much wants to show that she's better than you.
Turns out she wasn't from Germany at all. She was an immigrant from Slovakia, who had learnt German at such a high level that it sounded weird.
I've had Americans ask me the meaning of words I've used in a sentence. Like "what's tranquil?" (I'm non-native.)
I blame reading.
Speaking English using French vocabulary is a real cheat code
English speakers can really enhance their vocabulary when they know French. English does have a lot of French words that most people don't use anymore but if you use them, your vocabulary becomes off-the-charts intellectual.
I once did an English language vocabulary test that yielded that I'm amongst the top 0.01% in terms of amount of English-language vocabulary.
English is not my mother tongue and I still and often make mistakes in the use of "in"-vs-"on" or even in certain forms of past tense.
However I read a lot in English, in various areas of knowledge, plus it turns out lots of really obscure words in English are pretty much the same as a the word in some other language I know or even pretty much the Latin word, so when I didn't know that was the English word for that, I can often guess the meaning.
All this to say that I absolutelly agree with you that it's a reading thing, plus at more specialized language level, the "knowledge of foreign languages" also has some impact.
Got called a rich kid for knowing the word "carafe." Pretty sure I learned it from a book, my parents didn't have carafe with mountain spring water or some shit around the house.
I've been learning German too myself, and the thing that the traditional language courses don't teach you is the way natives speak. Listening to actual German speakers was pretty much alien to me even after two years until I bumped into a couple Easy German videos where they touch the very same subject as this xkcd and that actually got me listening to certain parts of speech more carefully and that way also understand it better.
Now I actually find myself doing the same shortcuts sometimes when I'm progressing with the skill. It's the same with English since I have to use it daily at work even though I'm not a native speaker. Funny how the languages work in real life vs. in theory.
My wife being bemused I don't understand french in Paris after learning french for 3 years. Dude, they speak such sloppy french I'm impressed they understand each other.
Agreed...I was especially impressed after I learned about their Verlan. As far as I can tell it's basically pig Latin that they take seriously and use regularly as slang? As a quick example, the word Verlan is Verlan for l'envers. They can keep their secrets I guess haha.
I think Verlan is pretty neat. We had a full lesson on it in middle school because of one of our country's most popular musicians, Stromae, which is Verlan for Maestro.
Fantastic! Stromae is actually the reason I learned verlan existed! I got to see him live in the US, and it was one of the coolest live shows I've ever seen. The majority of the video for quand c'est is an actual part of the live show, and I wasn't expecting it at all
Wait, Verlan is l'envers, stromae is maestro... Is this Verlan thing just like Rioplatense Spanish's Vesre? (Vesre basically means revés i.e. inverse)
EDIT: Just looked it up on Wikipedia and it turns out this phenomenon happens in a number of languages: Riocontra in Italian (riocontra -> contrario), Podaná in Greek, Šatrovački in Serbia, Totoiana in Romanian.
Lol is that what happens when they have an official institute that dictates correct French? "Oh it's not slang, it's verlan!"
Ah, and they're not the worst haha.
Joseph Justus Scaliger said something similar about Basque in the 17th century:
C’eſt un langage eſtrange que le Baſque… On dit, qu’ils s’entendent, je n’en crois rien
Basque is a strange language… It is said that they understand one another, but I don't believe any of it.
I get as far as the third panel. Anything beyond that is drunk speak
I thought the same at first, but then I tried actually saying it out loud. "Yeah, I'm just gonna go to the shops". And I actually think Munroe has it right here, at least for my accent. If I had been asked to say it and carefully analyse it myself, I probably wouldn't have noticed at all that I was eliding more than "going to" to "gonna". And if I had noticed, I still probably would have analysed it as (and I'm using Hangul here because frankly I don't know how to spell out the vowel in the Latin alphabet in a way that actually makes sense) 근 (basically "gun", but with a lazier vowel). But it's definitely been elided down to a single syllable.
The key thing is that this only happens when putting it into the middle of a full sentence. If it's the only word I say, it stays "gonna".
edit: wait 🤦♂️. I can use IPA. I'd have analysed it as /gən/ But realistically, Munroe's /gә̃/ is probably more accurate.
I can only get to /gә̃/ if I make an effort to say it faster than I ever actually talk. Otherwise, it definitely always has that "n" sound in there.
I didn't get it until I started trying to say "hot potato" in the middle of a sentence, like "Look out! Hot potato incoming!"
The 't' in "hot" became more and more like a glottal stop as my tongue started to touch the gums of my top front teeth less and less.
Still, I don't think I could uncover that alien impersonator.
"I'm goa have some hot potato."
Too me the "t" (at most) emphasises the hotness. Am I wrong?
Nice. There's lots of areas I've lived where the locals drop specific consonants from the names of places. So anyone who actually pronounces the place name "correctly" is immediately recognized as new to town.
I can only think if Toron(t)o. Never really thought about other towns doing the same thing.
When I hear someone from that city say their city's name, it sounds like it should be spelled "Trono."
Shibboleths are amazing! Calgary is almost universally pronounced "Cal-Gary" by non-locals, locals say "Calgree"
Vangcouver. =] Also every city in Australia.
Like the other reply said, it's all over the place in Australia. You can easily tell a tourist—especially an American tourist—because they'll say "can-bair-a" instead of "can-bruh".
It's not unusual in the UK, too. Worcester is Wost-er, Magdalen(e) is mawd-lin, and Leicester is lester.
Louisville becomes Luhvul
See, my middle name ends with an S and my last name begins with an S... and my middle name is a pluralized name, so nobody hears the S when I say it in conjunction with my last name. So I've gotten really good at pronouncing the S, stopping for a beat, then saying my last name, without it sounding super weird or robotic.
So properly pronouncing "hot potato" while enunciating the first T doesn't seem too challenging to me.
This is some riddle shit I can't figure out
We English wouldn't only drop the first t, we'd drop the h and the final t as well, 'o pota'o... innit
Hop-tay'doh
Subscribe, I love these
As a non native English speaker, I had to read your comments to understand the "Hot potato" one... Seems that I'm not as fluent in English as I thought (my accent is shit)
"hu- p-taydoh"
I'm sorry, but this one fails hard. My country ass drawls like I get paid by the vowel length, and I've never once shortened going to, to a single syllable. Never heard anyone do it either.
And hot potato isn't difficult to say at all.
Is this one a joke rather than something that's supposed to be real?
Now, I'm not saying we don't have some mush mouthed mofos up in these here hills, we do. Just not to that degree at all.
Edit: for anyone coming late to the party, I did say it in a sentence, and even changed the sentence up to see if it was some kind of specific thing like that. Got kind of obsessed with it for an hour or two, calling up friends that know I'm strange about language oddities and don't mind.
No matter how fast I got, no matter what sentence I tried, there was still a distinct, split second pause with an inhalation between them that makes the t and p distinct from each other. There was no ha'patata effect, or anything similar. Just hot, that brief pause as the tongue shifts and the lips purse for the potato, then the potato in a sweet southern drawl.
Maybe it was the "this fails hard" part that set off the parade of "yes it does" regardless of the fact that someone is saying that not only do they not do it, but other people with the same or similar regional accent don't either. And that's the case. The only two people I could rope in to try it out that did it came from Pennsylvania originally, and haven't developed a proper way of speaking yet (and if anyone doesn't recognize that as a joke, bugger off).
Shit, I was enthusiastic about this little quirk of speech. But damn, people maybe not keep repeating the same fucking thing when someone is making a good faith conversation about an oddity of language that should be interesting rather than another chance to feel superior by sticking to a generalization in a fucking comic strip.
If you can't say "tellyahwat" in one syllable you're not country enough
Y'all need to gitonupouttahyuh
You slow down for the t in hot? If you say hot potato aloud, in a sentence, you'll likely drop the T. This also really depends on your accent.
Atleast when I slowed down to say it aloud, it sounded quite unnatural to purposely slow down for that T sound in Hot
It's a broad generalization, but it's not really a matter of opinion. We can scan people's mouths and faces when they talk (and have in order to demonstrate this stuff). I think the last example probably only applies that way in particular circumstances though, since English speakers automatically group, contract, and arrange certain phonemes in certain orders (e.g., I'm not, I ain't, but never I amn't--and in real speech "I ain't" is almost always one syllable). In this example, more frequently my country ass contracts the first syllable of "gonna" away instead of the second, so "I'm 'na head to the store; y'all need anything?"
The hot potato example just stands for the premise that in real speech the t at the end of hot and the p at the beginning of potato slur together, and if you deliberately enunciate both consonants, you sound like you're reading to a transcriber. Compare the way a normal person says "let's go" to the way you sound if you force separate the words: you sound like you're doing a Mario impression.
Hop-pa-taydo
Also, the phrase “I’m going to” is often shortened to “I’mma” or “I’m ‘onna”. When referring to oneself, we tend to drop the G entirely
And in my case, it'd be more like /gna/. And yes I do pronounce the "t" in hot potato.
This example doesn't work for me. I barely pronounce the "t" even when i just say the word "hot" by itself, so when i say "hot potato" i don't pronounce the t any differently.