2 wrongs don't make a right. Even if Hamas committed such acts, it doesn't justify genocide or killing children or civilians at all. Israel is at least 3 steps up from completely unacceptable.
this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2024
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I can’t read the paywalled, story, but is that her point? Or is it just raising awareness For conflict related sexual violence?
I know many would use that logic to justify genocide, which is not right, but there’s many that will pretend like the sexual violence never happened or sweep it under the table.
Oh there's definitely people ignoring the sexual violence committed in Israeli prisons against Palestinians.
Weird that she's very vocal about the acts supposedly committed by Hamas, but is staying completely silent about all the sexual assault being committed by the IDF against Palestinian women. Almost like she's a massive fucking hypocrite.
UN report about sexual violence on October 7th, Haaretz isn't exactly the best source to use for this
TL;DR Although it doesn't in any way excuse the currently occurring genocide, and honestly I also wish she was as upset about 100 things from Israel's side that we are supporting instead of 1 thing from the Palestinian side that no one is supporting, she's not wrong.
"War crimes are wrong no matter who does them" shouldn't be a difficult moral dilemma
This is the Pramilla Patten report not the legal investigative UN report which found no evidence for these claims.
As the Patten report claims itself to hold no legal weight it is astounding you keep linking it especially since it has since been surpassed by the investigative report.
I just looked around a little bit for some kind of indication of how the Patten report relates to the report that has the screenshots you're sending, and I honestly couldn't find anything.
What report are you even linking here, that you're calling the legal investigative UN report? I was able to find a draft version which I linked to down below, but I'm not even sure what you are referencing here, when it was created, or how it relates to the Patten report. It looks from reading the first bit, though, like it was gathered from open sources, remote interviews, and asking Israel's government for information which obviously wasn't very productive. I.e. a lot less thorough than what they did for the Patten report.
Why are you saying the Patten report has been surpassed by the report you're sending screenshots of?
Edit: They didn't want to answer, for obvious reasons, but someone else figured it out
What you mean Linkerbaan is an obvious propagandist 😟
The Sheryl Sandberg "documentary" is a propaganda campaign to dehumanize Palestinians.
It is as factually grounded as an Alex Jones documentary. It contains completely debunked and already admitted proven lies. No evidence of rape on Oct7 has been found since as stated in the recent UN investigation.
Even the IDF has confirmed there are no photos or videos of Hamas raping anyone on October 7.
I wondered why you linked to screenshots instead of the actual report, so I found what I think is what you're linking to. Here's the context of your screenshot:
The Commission found indications that members of the military wing of Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups committed gender-based violence (GBV) in several locations in southern Israel on 7 October. These were not isolated incidents but perpetrated in similar ways in several locations and by multiple Palestinian perpetrators. The acts documented by the Commission reflected clear abuse of power by male perpetrators and a disregard for the special considerations and protection of women’s integrity and autonomy granted by international law.
Hamas military wing rejected all accusations that its forces committed sexual violence against Israeli women. However, the Commission documented cases indicative of sexual violence perpetrated against women and men in and around the Nova festival site, as well as the Nahal Oz military outpost and several kibbutzim, including Kfar Aza, Re’im and Nir Oz. It collected and preserved digital evidence, including images of victims’ bodies displaying indications of sexual violence, a pattern corroborated by independent testimonies from witnesses. Reliable witness accounts obtained by the Commission describe bodies that had been undressed, in some incidents with exposed genitals. The Commission received reports and verified digital evidence concerning the restraining of women, including hands and sometimes feet of women being bound, often behind the victims’ backs, prior to their abduction or killing. Additionally, the Commission made assessments based on the position of the body, for example images displaying legs spread or bent over, and signs of struggle or violence on the body, such as stab wounds, burns, lacerations and abrasions.
The Commission has reviewed testimonies obtained by journalists and the Israeli police concerning rape but has not been able to independently verify such allegations, due to a lack of access to victims, witnesses and crime sites and the obstruction of its investigations by the Israeli authorities. The Commission was unable to review the unedited version of such testimonies. For the same reasons, the Commission was also unable to verify reports of sexualized torture and genital mutilation. Additionally, the Commission found some specific allegations to be false, inaccurate or contradictory with other evidence or statements and discounted these from its assessment.
I also linked to a much more complete UN report elsewhere in this thread. I don't know how the two reports relate to each other though.
Because some people such as Sheryl Sandberg appear to not be able to make it to the relevant pages of the report and feel the need to spread the lie that Hamas raped people on October 7. I figured that you would also have appreciated the part with the red border around it as it might have been difficult to find as you previously suggested that Hamas raped women which the UN report very disproves.
Your other report is not relevant as it is not investigative. I am unsure why you keep linking it.
Hamas tying up women becomes a lot less relevant when looking at the fact that they have also tied up males. In fact you'd almost think they were tying up people to take them hostage.
Do you have some kind of superpower that involves looking at documents and seeing only the parts of them that you want to see
I'm not interested in a back-and-forth, but as one last comment, I'll quote excerpts from the lengthier of the reports:
- Based on the information gathered by the mission team from multiple and independent sources, there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred during the 7 October attacks in multiple locations across Gaza periphery, including rape and gang rape, in at least three locations.
- With respect to hostages, the mission team found clear and convincing information that some have been subjected to various forms of conflict-related sexual violence including rape and sexualized torture and sexualized cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment and it also has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may be ongoing
You have been informed multiple times that your UN report is not investigative or has any legal implication whereas the one I linked is.
Furthermore the investigative report very clearly states there is no evidence. Only testimonies. You could have read that in the first line of the image I posted. It appears however you are more interested in pushing a narrative that has already been debunked.
Testimonies are evidence. That's why prosecutors call witnesses to the stand.
In fact testimonies are often preferred over non-testimonial evidence, aka "circumstantial evidence".
The UN obtained testimonial evidence and circumstantial evidence of sexual violence:
[We] collected and preserved digital evidence, including images of victims’ bodies displaying indications of sexual violence, a pattern corroborated by independent testimonies from witnesses
And then the UN came to the legal conclusion there's no evidence of rape.
That's completely false.
the Commission documented cases indicative of sexual violence perpetrated against women and men in and around the Nova festival site, as well as the Nahal Oz military outpost and several kibbutzim, including Kfar Aza, Re’im and Nir Oz. It collected and preserved digital evidence, including images of victims’ bodies displaying indications of sexual violence, a pattern corroborated by independent testimonies from witnesses.
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I know I said I wouldn't get drawn into the back and forth. I really don't want to. 🥲
But I just wanna posit a little thought experiment:
"Hang on -- were you the one sneaking into the shop after hours and fucking the stuffed animals?"
"There's no hard evidence of that! Not that exists in a fully accredited legal document! The follow-up report completely discredited the
I'm still -- completely seriously -- wanting to know what report you are even citing in these screenshots. Like I say, I found a random .doc somewhere that is clearly a draft version of that same document, but it wasn't even immediately clear to me what it was or when it was produced. And, why you say it supersedes the SRSG-SVC report instead of the other way around.
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Nice screenshots.
Is there something in the first report that you didn't show us?
the Commission documented cases indicative of sexual violence perpetrated against women and men in and around the Nova festival site, as well as the Nahal Oz military outpost and several kibbutzim, including Kfar Aza, Re’im and Nir Oz. It collected and preserved digital evidence, including images of victims’ bodies displaying indications of sexual violence, a pattern corroborated by independent testimonies from witnesses.
Huh.
Is there anything more in the second report?
Based on the information gathered by the mission team from multiple and independent sources, there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred during the 7 October attacks
There is no second report there is only one legal UN investigation.
Please cite which examples of "sexual violence" occurred as you leave out the context of having a hostages hands tied is classified as "sexual violence".
Cop using bullshit to support mass violence, color me shocked
Not like it's some easily ignorable thing like an 8 month genocide....
/s
Fuck these fascist assholes. This is what happens when we settle for a president that's more loyal to a foreign country than America.
So you think we shouldn’t have voted for Biden, and this would have been better for Palestinians under Trump?
I think—and this is fucking mental, I know—that we should all vote for a President that's not supporting genocide.
That would be great. That’s not an option this election. We can either vote for the current support of Israel, or allow Trump to help Netanyahu turn Gaza into glass while destroying America for everyone who is not rich, white, straight, and Christian.
That’s it. That’s all we get this term.
Obviously I’m voting for Biden. That being said, it really is something to live here in the ‘land of the free’ and read sentences stating that voting for someone who doesn't support genocide isn’t an option this cycle. Pragmatic and true, but goddamn does it burn.
Agreed. It’s completely awful to have to put support for Israel aside and look at the rest of the issues.
It is, and always has been, an option. Perhaps not an easy one, but the two-party duopoly has brought us here to the brink of democratic collapse.
But what gets me is being told that the other guy will be so much worse for Palestine, when it's not entirely clear that there will even be a Palestine by inauguration day.
Then you should consider weighing everything else.
Biden rejoined the Paris Climate Agreement, revoked the Keystone Pipeline permit, created a 13 million acre federal petroleum reserve for Alaskan wildlife, greatly increased oil site lease cost, signed $7B in solar subsidies, enacted the Inflation Reduction act to support clean energy, leveraged the NLRB for an FTC ruling that eliminated non-compete agreements, forgave billions in student debt from predatory loans, created the CHIPS Act to improve reliance on domestic technology, reenacted Net Neutrality, repealed Title 42, ended the Muslim Ban, signed the Equality Act for LGBTQ+ rights, restored gay rights to beneficiaries, reenacted trans care anti-discrimination law, signed the Respect for Marriage Act, enabled unspecified gender on US Passports, rejoined WHO, rescheduled marijuana, actively reducing drug costs with the American Rescue Plan Act…
Trump repealed 112 climate regulations, left the Paris Climate Agreement, disbanded the pandemic response team stalling national pandemic response, left the WHO, repealed trans care anti-discrimination law, repealed gay rights to beneficiaries, enacted Title 42 and the Muslim ban, repealed Net Neutrality, provided tax cuts to the wealthy that further widened our already exploitative wealth inequality, increased tariffs on goods costing the consumers, repealed the ACA without replacement, seated the conservatives in SCOTUS that repealed Roe v. Wade…
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The consent must be manufactured! We will find evidence of those WMD's after Hamas is destroyed!
There's evidence Hamas killed and violently abducted people on Oct. 7. Are you saying rape is required to respond?
It isn't, but even if it were there is direct evidence that Hamas raped a hostage.
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With the extreme saturation of news on this conflict, it should be apparent at this point. While Israel is dead wrong in their genocidal response, Hamas is also responsible for countless atrocities committed against Israelis and Palestinians.
The rape hoax is required to manufacture consent to commit Genocide. Not to "respond".
I skipped the word Hamas and thought Kamala got caught committing heinous crimes.
Paywall
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