this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2024
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[–] [email protected] 118 points 8 months ago (1 children)

No surprises here. You cannot be having babies and making sandwiches if you are doing sports.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 8 months ago (5 children)

As a stay at home Dad, I also find time to cook and play basketball in the local rec League. I personally think women should leave all that stuff to men and get back to work.

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[–] [email protected] 81 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I was listening on NPR about how women were checked for femininity and given a card after an official go to see their reproductive organs for Olympic sports. Fun times!

[–] [email protected] 62 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Do they also do Olympic penis inspection day for the make athletes?

[–] [email protected] 28 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Way back in the day, you wouldn’t have to do this.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

the olympic genital inspector seems like a job for weirdos (deragatory)

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[–] [email protected] 65 points 8 months ago (6 children)

We do not know what is between Imane Khelif's legs. It is absolutely possible to be XY and be born with a vagina that looks and works like any vagina. They might even have rudimentary (but non-functional) female reproductive organs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis

If that is true about Imane Khelif, she may not even have known about it most of her life.

Should all Olympians be genetically tested or just examined to see what's between their legs? If the former, which event do the women with Swyer Syndrome perform in? How about people with both sets of genitalia? They exist. What about people who are XXY or XYY?

And if you think the latter- please do justify that sort of invasive examination for the purposes of athletic competition. Unpaid athletic competition at that.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Do we need a protected class? If yes, there must be standards and those standards must be either endocrine or genetic or both. Yes they should be tested. Anyone failing the protected class can compete in the open class. It's really that simple.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

What open class? There is no open class at the Olympics. So no it isn't really that simple.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Really? They prohibit women from competing alongside men?? No thats not the case, women only sports is to prevent males with higher biological advantage from taking over the women's competition.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago (3 children)

The determination of who may compete in limited-class sports must be made by rules.

It’s not a matter of who you or I think is a woman who qualifies. Only the governing body of that sport makes that determination.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I think the debate is about what a reasonable class is. I don't think that an appendage, or identity for that matter, is a reasonable proxy for capability class. In my mind you really have to go one of two ways.

You either make everything class-less (think UFC 1) where all weights, sizes, abilities, genetics compete for a singular title

Or

You make science-based classes, based around whatever the best proxy for capabilities are (testosterone, chromosomes, height, weight, body fat percentage, some combination of the former, etc)

If you use nothing as a proxy, there would be a lot of people unable to compete but it would at least be unequivocally "fair". If you use science-based capability classes you would have a wider range of "fair-ish" competitions, but there might be some weird overlap where some men, some women, and those in-between bridge accepted norms.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago (8 children)

That really doesn't answer my question, it just splits it up between different bodies.

So let's say it's just a specific governing body of a sport? I'll reword it with a minor changes:

Should athletes be genetically tested by that body or just examined to see what’s between their legs? If the former, do the women with Swyer Syndrome perform in the male or female divisions? How about people with both sets of genitalia? They exist. What about people who are XXY or XYY?

And if you think the latter- please do justify that sort of invasive examination for the purposes of athletic competition.

I think you can give a general answer to that question which applies to all members of, at the very least, the boxing league Khelif is in.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (4 children)

That really doesn’t answer my question, it just splits it up between different bodies.

Sorry, that's just reality.

I can't give you a general answer that applies to all of women's sport, and for a specific answer regarding a particular women's sport, you'll need to consult with the governing body of that sport, and recognize that body may pander to interests (commercial, or the preferences of its participants and other stakeholders, etc) that have nothing to do with how you prefer to define "woman".

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 8 months ago (3 children)

IMO this reflects the conservative mindset that everything is black and white and that if they believe it then it will manifest itself as truth. Even if they have to force it to be so in a convoluted and hypocritical way.

What I think is that nature gives some people the mutation that could save humanity one day. The ability for XX and XX to make a XY if all the XY are unavailable. Mother Nature shows this is a rule in many of the other species on this planet.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Obviously women are only allowed to compete if they have six children and do the fundie baby voice just right.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (9 children)

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/two-disqualified-failing-meet-eligibility-criteria-world-champs-2023-03-26/

Imane Khelif was disqualified for not meeting gender criteria from world championship.

Edit to all: I am not against LGBT+ or anything. I just post news, take what you want.

[–] [email protected] 105 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)

By already disqualified IBA which was disqualified for corruption and pro Russia slant.

They claim they have evidence, but never provide it, they disqualified her after she beat a Russian boxer. Why didn't they disqualify her earlier fight after she won against the Nigerian (IIRC) boxer.

Not to mention 9 fights she lost to other women.

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 8 months ago (6 children)

She was suspended for naturally high testosterone levels by the IBA, a governing body that has since itself been suspended and had it’s recognition revoked due to corruption scandals. (Imagine what it takes for the famously corrupt IOC to say, “No, that’s too corrupt.”) No matter how you want to define gender, biological sex, identity, etc., she’s a woman. She’s just a freak athlete and that’s what the Olympics are about. No one would be all up in arms if her hands had a naturally high score on the Mohs scale of mineral hardness. You’d put on your gloves and catch her topaz-hard hands.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

she wasn't even disqualified for having high T. they disqualified her first and then did tests and later announced that she supposedly had XY chromosomes, which I don't believe. I recommend reading through these sources and watching the official statement from the IOC spokesperson (time code added so you don't have to watch the whole video):

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/01/world/olympics/boxer-quits-gender-angela-carini-imane-khelif.html

https://olympics.com/ioc/news/joint-paris-2024-boxing-unit-ioc-statement

https://youtu.be/https://youtube.com/live/QxeIRI2Qcag?t=1912

I personally believe that IBA was butthurt about her beating a Russian boxer or got bribed into disqualifying her, and then made up the gender test bullshit to justify it. now the transphobes used this opportunity to pretend to care about women's sports and attack trans people, even though imane khelif is definitely 100% not trans:

https://www.unicef.org/algeria/en/stories/top-female-boxer-imane-khelif-dreams-gold-inspire-young-people

EDIT: the livestream i linked to was taken down. i looked on their youtube channel and theres a video with only the relevant part. you can watch it here: https://youtu.be/D4HiUIX9o00?si=UWz3uqCDXBhg98cI

EDIT EDIT: nvm I'm stupid, I fucked up the link lmao. here is the working link to the Livestream: https://youtube.com/live/QxeIRI2Qcag?t=1912

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago (10 children)

This is stupid. There's no "far right" to purge women.. the outcry is whether or not women's sports are being treated fairly. The whole controversy about this boxing issue started when information was released that this female has failed gender tests in the past. Of course there's going to be an outcry from people.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

If they were doing it to help, you'd think they'd actually look into if what they were doing was helping... when you care about someone or something, you put in the effort.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago

Would it make a difference to you if the controversy kicked off because the org that disqualified these two fighters was banned by the IOC from participating in the Olympics for shady stuff? Or if the org has never said why they were disqualified? Or if the guy making the wild claims is the head of the org and a friend of Putin, and the DQ for one fighter happened after she beat an until then undefeated Russian fighter?

You really should look into the background of it. Here's an AP News link

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

Exactly. And the outcry over unfairness in women's sports is an effort to save it, not destroy it.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Why isn't this labeled as an opinion piece? There's nothing in here to substantiate the headline and almost no journalism. I'm not used to work like this from The Intercept.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Can you explain a bit more? I just finished the article and I came to the opposite conclusion.

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