this post was submitted on 28 Oct 2024
88 points (100.0% liked)

PC Gaming

10478 readers
751 users here now

For PC gaming news and discussion. PCGamingWiki

Rules:

  1. Be Respectful.
  2. No Spam or Porn.
  3. No Advertising.
  4. No Memes.
  5. No Tech Support.
  6. No questions about buying/building computers.
  7. No game suggestions, friend requests, surveys, or begging.
  8. No Let's Plays, streams, highlight reels/montages, random videos or shorts.
  9. No off-topic posts/comments, within reason.
  10. Use the original source, no clickbait titles, no duplicates. (Submissions should be from the original source if possible, unless from paywalled or non-english sources. If the title is clickbait or lacks context you may lightly edit the title.)

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 104 points 4 months ago (3 children)

One of the only good stores is suddenly the asshole but not because they did something wrong, its because everyone else sucks.

Fuck that. They aren't responsible for other's failures. GOG and itch.io are around and doing fine and aren't hated, if GOG would finally make a Linux GOG Galaxy without having to go through troublesome third Party tinkering (compared to steam) it would be a great competitor. But Epic and the other "stores" just suck ass lack features lack community lack privacy and generally suck ass. That's not valves fault.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 4 months ago (2 children)

if GOG would finally make a Linux GOG Galaxy without having to go through troublesome third Party tinkering (compared to steam) it would be a great competitor.

I still think this is a huge blunder by GOG. There has to be a very significant overlap in the user base of DRM free software and Linux.

At least Heroic has matured very well and GOG partnered up with them so something is moving.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago

Glad to hear Gog is partnering with Heroic. Heroic is pretty slick, and only getting slicker. Shame to waste effort, and much better than forking and not contributing to upstream.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (8 children)

By far not enough sadly, and they could literally just integrate proton into a store that runs on Linux, proton is open source (besides some steam API stuff).

Its not hard and them not doing it shows how little CDPR actually cares about GOG, its either running or not they don't really give a fuck. And for that it works good all things considered.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I think there's a difference between them being a good company for customers and them being a digital fief. Similar to how Amazon could be seen as a "good" company by customers (return policy, cheap stuff, etc), but they essentially own an entire marketplace and decides who sells products, and extracts rents from people who are making good innovative stuff. Steam is the same way.

Of course, Valve doesn't have the mistreatment of employees Amazon does. They have no internal hierarchy, which is cool and I imagine means less management involvement. Their president seems to just want to make gamers happy, and thats great too.

Theyre an anomaly in the business world because they're seemingly a great company that doesn't follow monetization trends, while still being hugely financially successful. But they still extract rents from videogame makers, so leftists see that as a black eye.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago (16 children)

Agree with most you say. Just two things

Steam doesn't own the market place, as said, gog and itch.io do their stuff, epic is also there (nobody with a brain likes them but they still have a share) and then a publisher could just make a website for their game, Minecraft for example.

They don't decide either, the algorithms within steam work very clearly and their seasonal sales are from my knollage open sign up for the devs and publishers. The player specific feeds also work according to tags, play a lot of builder games recently? Steam recommends similar games you might like, sometimes mixes between tags you haven't played like that.

In reality it's almost exclusively up to the devs/publishers and the players what gets sold steam does push indie stuff a little more in recent years but I don't see the downside of that.

And secondly.

"Leftist" real left people would be happy that steam is how it is and would bring constructive criticism. The people screaming Steam bad, are the same people that scream everything else when they get cloud from it.

load more comments (16 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 92 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Until any competing store releases a Linux client, I can't really argue against Steam. They are a gatekeeper and almost a monopoly, but they're also the most benevolent and pro-consumer gatekeeper that we have in the PC gaming distribution space. As long as all the competition continue to be Windows-only and, in some cases, actively work against Linux users, I don't want Valve's digital fiefdom to fall.

[–] [email protected] 59 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I'm not sure "gatekeepr" is the right term when all you do is simply being better for your customers than anyone else. Like, Ubisoft, EA, Epic, they all are garbage companies. GOG is the only store I'd mildly consider (ignoring tiny indie ones like Itch here), but they also have 0 interest in Linux support, which is where they lose me. Without Valve, Linux gaming would not be where it is today, and as a Linux user that is already like 85% of my decision making being done in favor of Valve - with the remaining 15% not all strictly being in another camp either. If someone wants to challenge that monopoly, they'd have to do something better than forcing exclusives or luring with "free" games, because that's some shady shit that makes me just want to stay away even more.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 months ago (1 children)

How are they a gatekeeper? Near monopoly sure. But they don't force companies to only publish on Steam. They don't have restrictive rules. I'm not sure what gate they are keeping.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

If you reeeeally want to stretch, they do have rules about pricing things lower on other platforms. Like, you can have a sale on your website that makes it cheaper than Steam, but can't have the base price cheaper there than on Steam. That's about it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

Valve is interesting. Enshitification is the standard for something like social media. Corporations are the real customer and users do creative labor to keep it valuable.

Valve flips the script. Developers struggle because they are only expected to labor. Studios don't get the full value of their labor. They might be a huge corporation but they are a worker to valve

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 75 points 4 months ago (2 children)

When a monopoly is faced with a smaller, more efficient competitor, they cut prices to keep people from switching, or buy the new competitor, make themselves more efficient, and increase profits.

When Steam was faced with smaller competition that charged lower prices, they did - nothing. They're not the leader because of a trick, or clever marketing, but because they give both publishers and gamers a huge stack of things they want.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Sure, Steam seems fairly okay, especially their Linux support, but I still mostly prefer GOG, wherever possible, because it offers more control to their customer over the product they bought.

It helps that Valve is not publicly traded, but I fear that if the current owner (Gabe Newell) dies, there might be a shift in business practices.

Enshittification can still happen in privately traded/owned companies, it generally happens slower and in case there are other reason for the owner(s) to maximize short term profits (e.g. business built on VC money), it can happen faster.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Gog support sucks tbh. Steam refunds everything no questions asked. Bought elden ring on gog, wrong region, couldn't activate it back home. They told me to suck it. Fuck gog

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 51 points 4 months ago

This is just silly, is this dev just a salty b?
I may not like some parts of steam (like its ui) but I'd say gaben showed us how a big company should always be run.
They don't buy out anyone (hello epic) they made many proconsuner moves and they are funding alternatives like proton without any guarantee of return.

Your shit doesn't sell without steam not because its YouTube and holding everything and everyone hostage, but because everything else is just that much worse.

If you wanna shoot yourself in the foot go ahead but don't complain nobody is is helping with it.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Digital fiefdoms like who, you ask, as if you don't already know the answer? "Valve is the most egregious example," says Gavrilović. He hopes for a future where devs, not digital feudal lords, have more power, "but I lack the imagination to envision the replacement of Valve with a community owned alternative. That 'winter castle' will not fall as easily, but we should at least start openly discussing alternatives."

Make an opensource game store that's owned by a non-profit and paid for by the game studios that want to sell on it, giving them a say on how things should run.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago

We will find a unicorn before that simply because such a store isn't easy to keep up and because things turn political real fast, wich is why steam is run like it is.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That could easily be abused by the big players, and would be.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 30 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Call me when they show predatory behaviour to establish their monopoly. I don't think steam has exclusive deals as epic has for example.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Loot boxes and what is essentially a market of nft’s. Otherwise they’re pretty cool I guess.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago

Its about steam itself not what valve does in CS or TF2 and the market isn't their fault.

The loot boxes are entirely cosmetical stuff and the market is 100% player run, when nobody buys the stuff, steam wouldn't loose a penny, they profit from transactions on their platform, but that's because they are acting as payment processors.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (11 children)

Right on. I enjoy steam and I find Valve are mostly responsible gatekeepers, but at the end of the day, they’re still a gatekeeper

[–] [email protected] 32 points 4 months ago (9 children)

Are they gatekeepers though? It's not like they own Windows or Linux and stop you from using any other store. Just having the biggest audience doesn't make them gatekeepers to the market.

I never see people talking about what valve should change other than lowering the 30% cut, but arbitrarily forcing that would set a bad precedent.

Instead of virtue signalling here's reasonable things Valve could do:

  • allow developers to chose what features of steam they use for each game, allowing them to lower the cut by individually opting out of forums, workshop, cloud saves, achievements, inventory items etc
  • offer a purchase = one time download with no drm (still legally one copy) for the closest thing to "owning" a digital game
  • allow someone to inherit a steam account

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure proton is free to use and you can install stores and games not from steam on a Steam Deck, so again I really don't know what they're gatekeeping.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

For specifics, I'd like to see consistent, transparent censorship standards, and Steam Workshop files made publicly available.

Steam's censorship issues are only going to be more of a problem as the Japanese PC market continues its explosive growth. The platform's inconsistency is surely frustrating Japanese developers, and the lack of transparency is giving fuel to a (not unearned) narrative that its content reviewers are arbitrary and xenophobic.

The Workshop matter is far smaller in comparison, but Steam is gatekeeping crowdsourced work product.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
load more comments (10 replies)
[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago

I feel like some journalist got high as fuck with a dev, wrote out a fucking fever dream of... drivel and then the editors were like fuck it, Tim Sweeney pays us to post some hit pieces against Valve and this is all we got this month so we'll just run with this.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago

I agree and hope that what comes after it is even better at supporting gaming on GNU/Linux and contributing to various libre and opensource projects like KDE and Proton and Mesa and such.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago

Let's save it for when Gabe bites it and it gets shity.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Dont buy your game codes on steam if you use steam!

Gamestop sells them among others.

Hard to walk away from steam services but GoG is non drm, so once they get better linux integration going start a library there.

Bottom line everyone should be disturbing their spend among various players.

While steam is great, once gabe is ded, we are cooked frogs.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Eh… I have a 500+ game library on GOG and moved back to Steam in 2020. Steam just has too many good features. I’m at the point where I don’t really care about DRM anymore. I know that’s an unpopular opinion but after 20+ years I realize it’s just a boogeyman.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (7 children)

When DRM is implemented without problems (unlike denassvu) its generally absolutely not relevant when you buy a game.

load more comments (7 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I've been waiting for Galaxy for Linux for 10 years, since they announced it in 2014. They obviously don't care.

Rule 1: "No Tux, No Bucks"

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›