this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2024
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devils panties 12/23/2024 (thedevilspanties.com)
submitted 3 months ago by HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com to c/comicstrips@lemmy.world
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So these comments are mine but if you go to the site the artist comments on the strip. Not all the time but definitely more frequently in the last few years over early on. This is sorta a common shtick I see where the progressive ideals are secretly for personal greedy reasons. I always love it. It is funny because I do see progressive causes from a greedy perspective. I would like all the people I interact with as I move through society to be educated and healthy. I like public spaces. I like well maintained infrastructure. and I'm not afraid to pay taxes for it, provided taxes are collected progressively. People should be able to make a decent wage.

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[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 17 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

Liberals saying they support unions and strikes, and then complaining about strikes interrupting commerce and shipping for their own entitled reasons is such a liberal thing to do. They don’t seem to realize that they’re falling for the propaganda traps that are present to try to prevent further support for unionization.

Edit: lol I’ve angered the liberal hive mind. It might be time for some of y’all to read up on the characteristics of classical liberalism and maybe Combat Liberalism instead of feeling attacked and proving my point.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 18 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Leave some straw for the rest of us.

I can edit too:

Okay so we're talking about the difference between "All squares are rectangles" and "Not all rectangles are squares."

What you initially said, and what I offered a "conservative/Nazi" counterpoint to, is "Rectangles doing square things is such a rectangle thing to do," when most rectangles are not squares.

This is the epitome of a straw man argument.

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It’s not a strawman if you’ve actually witnessed it. Those types of ultralibs aren’t well liked even in liberal circles, and they are a rarity. But seeing them crop up and contort themselves into pretzels is amusing.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 18 points 3 months ago (1 children)

No, no, no. You don't get to pretend that what you originally said was something else entirely.

Liberals saying they support unions and strikes, and then complaining about strikes interrupting commerce and shipping for their own entitled reasons is such a liberal thing to do.

Those types of ultralibs aren’t well liked even in liberal circles, and they are a rarity.

Your first comment was a blanket statement. Your second comment tried to walk that back into a very specific statement. Those are two entirely different things, and your pretending they aren't instead of admitting you were wrong in the first case is telling.

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I mean… that is a very liberal thing to do. I wasn’t saying every liberal is like that. I’m saying that kind of behavior falls in line with liberalism.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So is it "liberals" doing "such a liberal thing to do" or only what "ultralibs" who "are a rarity" do?

Those are different. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They’re both liberals. Everything I’ve said still applies.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 16 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Conservatives marching down the street carrying Nazi flags is such a conservative thing to do then, yes?

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Not all conservatives are Nazis, but chances are pretty high based on history that all Nazis are conservatives.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So would you say that the statement "Conservatives marching down the street carrying Nazi flags is such a conservative thing to do" is substantially true or substantially false?

Maybe a better distinction would be "accurate or misleading".

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If a 100% of Nazis are historically conservative or conservative-adjacent, it is a conservative thing to do. That’s not stating all conservatives are automatically Nazis. In this case though, I’d probably just say it’s a very Nazi thing to do.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Okay so we're talking about the difference between "All squares are rectangles" and "Not all rectangles are squares."

What you initially said, and what I offered a "conservative/Nazi" counterpoint to, is "Rectangles doing square things is such a rectangle thing to do," when most rectangles are not squares.

This is the epitome of a straw man argument.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

getting into a logical argument over a ~~figure of speech~~ idomatic expression is such a lemmy thing to do~~

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Not a figure of speech. It's the difference between substantially accurate and propaganda.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 4 points 3 months ago

Thanks for the correction!

Getting upset over a minor critique of the status quo-upholding elements within liberalism is, ironically, a very liberal thing to do.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 3 points 3 months ago

I love that you snarked your way into understanding what they were saying

[–] randomdeadguy@lemmy.world 18 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Are "they" in the room with us right now?

[–] Melt@lemm.ee 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Creating imaginary enemies is how the conservative cope with their worsening life

[–] randomdeadguy@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

That is such a [redacted] thing to do

[–] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago

Russian collision says what?

[–] thejml@lemm.ee 17 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Well. That’s one way to announce you don’t know any liberals. None of the ones I know are worried about getting late packages due to these strikes, but then most all of them try to support non-shitty businesses anyway.

Or maybe you just can’t lump everyone together in neat little groups.

[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Some liberals are just more pedantic than others. Most of them are not like that and any time I see them crop up in chats I’m part of, they get scolded by basically everyone. They are the rare ultralibs that have a high level of entitlement.

[–] EndlessApollo@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

"My liberal friends aren't like this, therefore no liberals are"

[–] KombatWombat@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

You understand the person they were replying to used their own anecdotal observation to characterize liberals in general, right? They were providing counterexamples.

[–] luciferofastora@lemmy.zip 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

This message isn't directed strictly at you, OP, it's just an argument I find myself repeating and it aligns with what you're saying.

Social security, job security, livable wages, class solidarity and affordable universal healthcare are all very much self-serving goals. Even if you care nothing about the poor, the sick, the unemployed or anyone else, the security and benefits you gain from socialised bargaining power will most likely benefit you.

Unless you're born rich enough that none of these things matter to you, you'll probably never ascend into that class either. Hard work alone doesn't get you wealthy any more, it just makes you a more exploitable slave.

If you want a better life, progressive economic ideals are the best wagon you can jump on. Forget about religion, immigrants, race, trans bathrooms and all that - we can sort that out separately, but economic policy at least will unambiguously serve you too.

Note on the last bit: I expect that improving material conditions will lower the resistance to improvement of social conditions too and rob bigotry of much of its fuel.

[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I would argue even the person born rich enough that none of it matters personally to them still are better off because they simply cannot micromanage all the little benefits a well run society gives. They will still be rich and have more money than they can personally spend but everything around them will be improved. their whole enviroment even if its beyond their domocile. its like why do rich folks love to hang around europe and if they do hang around the us oftentimes its in major cities. if being rich and alone was ideal they would all have michael jackson ranch situations.

[–] luciferofastora@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 months ago

I meant the type of rich that you can't get without massive exploitation, the "If I paid people livable wages, my wealth would collapse" type of rich, know what I mean?

But you raise a good point. That is a distinction to be made.