this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2025

99 points (100.0% liked)

Linux

7255 readers

685 users here now

A community for everything relating to the GNU/Linux operating system

Also check out:

Original icon base courtesy of [email protected] and The GIMP

founded 2 years ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

My ~$2700 ThinkPad is worth $650 re Lenovo (suppo.fi)

submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

57 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Let's start with my mistakes:

I haven't followed LKML.
I assumed: Every ThinkPad has - overall - perfect Linux support, so this will as well.
I did look up support when purchasing but I was still not verifying on the LKML.
Edit: I trusted Qualcomm's marketing

So, I wanted a ARM-Linux laptop so bad. I heared about the Lenovo ThinkPad X13s in 2023 and I looked at marketing promises and (rare!) takes on it. Then there was the opportunity to buy this laptop fir a good price with the entire stats I would require for my next 10+ years. So I bought it.

In order to bake Linux on it I had to read up upon many things - I run it daily but have to accept some downsizes.

Anyhow, I thought this title would be interessting regarding Lenovo's and Qualcomm's "success" on ARM so that others may be aware that I am looking daily for the LKML and my model SC8280XP.

There is ONE SINGLE CONTRIBUTOR (there were two; The other joined Lenovo) allowed to have "elected and requested" documents in order to aid support. Despite their intentions (QUALCOMM) to support Linux. And I furthermore assume it hasn't have changed with the new Snapdragon X processors.

So, thanks to John Hovold and Linaro for doing an awesome job. I wish I could support you.

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 90 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'll be honest, this sounds interesting, but I have no idea what you're even trying to say.
Where does the $2700 price come from?
Does it support Linux or not?
Are you happy with it or not?
What's LKMS?
I'm really struggling to even parse the basics from your post.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

I'll be honest, this sounds interesting, but I have no idea what you're even trying to say.

I am just sharing for the community. And I want some nerdish engagement tbqh.

Where does the $2700 price come from?

It was the manufacture price when I purchased it.

Does it support Linux or not?

It does but there are a few important things lacking. Also it isn't stable without reading up on LKMS upfront and knowing what to do. Not all distros are capable of booting it yet (e.g. void).

Are you happy with it or not?

I poured ~$1200 to Qualcomm/Lenovo and they are employing one worker from one sub company. Interpret it on your own.

What's LKMS?

RTFM. // Edit: I missspelled. LKML. I edited my post. Appreciated.

I'm really struggling to even parse the basics from your post.

I am open for sharing my insights, though : )

[–] [email protected] 28 points 3 months ago (2 children)

It's amazing that you think this is a clarifying post and not just more confusing. You really didn't answer any of their questions at all.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

Yeah this is cringe and pretentious as hell.

OP, you scammed yourself and I’m happy you did.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Of whom?

[–] [email protected] 26 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Where does the $2700 price come from?

It was the manufacture price when I purchased it.

I poured ~$1200 to Qualcomm/Lenovo

I'm even more confused now. Did you pay 1200$ or 2400$, and if the second why would you for a laptop with these specs?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

The listing price was $2700 on purchase. I bought it for around $1800. The $650 dollar are from the Lenovo outlet store. I could sell this laptop for less then $500 on ebay.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

How much time has passed? This is perfectly normal depreciation for a computer over 2-3 years.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Indeed it is. Though I just started to leverage its capabilities.

Nonetheless, I would again buy into aarch64.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

How did you calculate $1200 from this?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

I paid 1200 EUR.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I missspelled. LKML. I edited my post.

You edited one LKMS. But... What about 2nd LKMS?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

I wanted to do this, but my app somehow didn't have this image and it was too much effort to track down the reference image.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I edited both:

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Oop I counted wrong. The 3rd one is still on the post. Right before you specify your model number.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Thank you for your persistance. Edited it, Sir or Madame.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

I was just trying to meme on the mention of the previous one. I didn't actually expect a response lol.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (4 children)

~~Idk why I get downvoted for this.~~

I am transparent and sharing my experience. I almost paid $2000 dollar for my dream and contributed as best as I can.

~~TIL: Don't fk post.~~

// Edit: But prompt your confusion. You may get insight.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Don't tell people to RTFM when you present a unique hardware/software limitation scenario.

You said you wanted a chat, so chat about the issue, don't give the group homework

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Thisnis slightly out of context. I told to (politely though, I thought) RTFM because the acronym should have been known in this channel. Though I have missspelled it and therefore his question was valuable critique.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Even if you hadn't misspelled it, replying RTFM to people who ask what an acronym means is nonsensical and rude.

Which manual???

And while RTFM can be expected to be understood here, LKML without context can most certainly not. I'm a sysadmin by trade, I've been using Linux exclusively for 15 years, I've patched and compiled my own kernels, and I didn't know that acronym. Cause I'm no kernel developer.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

I will be more sensible the next time and I took my lesson. Thank you for elaborating clearly!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

👍

[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Just a guess but it may be due to "RTFM" in

RTFM. // Edit: I missspelled. LKML. I edited my post. Appreciated.

We don't endore that kind of behaviour here so that might be why.

Either way I believe that the rest of your comment and post seems good and informs the public as it's your experience with the ARM laptop so I gave you my upvotes for those parts👍

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

I see; Thank you for teaching me. From now on I will try to be more objective and inclusive!

In real life I am known to be upfront (and too fast many times as well). No excuse - just some perspective from myself I have to think about.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I didn't downvote you, but you kind of glossed over the unreasonably high price point for a middle of the road Thinkpad that looks like it's worth less than what Lenovo is currently reselling it for. You can literally build a high end gaming rig for less than what you paid for that so I feel like we're missing a lot of context here.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I know that's why I made this post: My hopes were high up and I payed the price. So I shared my experience.

Appreciate your follow up, Sir or Madame.

They claimed 28 Hours of no connectivity video playback with a moderate amount of brightness (if I recall correctly about 50%). It may get there half (Windows or Linux) but you will be at 0% left.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 months ago

Literally every single comment you post has one or more sentences that are unrelated to everything prior to it and don't indicate who they're even directed at.. It feels like you're having conversations with ghosts that only you can hear.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Sorry about the downvotes

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

How dare you!

[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Lenovo artificially inflates the [M]SRP and has fake “sales” to make it seem like you’re getting a good deal. Never ever trust that.

As you discovered there is often one single person working on getting these devices compatible. As an example the OpenBSD team and others will sometimes suggest you donate a system in order for anything to happen. And even then there are no guarantees if blobs are involved.

This is a pretty big goof up but I’ve made the same mistake when the x200 first came out. I think you’re getting dragged because what people are curious about is what specifically isn’t working. I’m surprised it’s working at all but then again John is a beast.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

This is true for tons of companies across the board

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Thank you for your kind words and objective perspective.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

No prob. Been there. Hope you eventually get it all sorted out.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Why didn't you buy a framework, or even a macbook and run asahi Linux on it?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

Asahi is not suitable for daily driver yet afaik. But Framework is a good one.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

A friend of mine bought an used M1 and Linux support is limited to this day. I just want to run Debian (stable).

Framework doesn't have (and still hasn't) an aarch64 CPU.

The benefits of an ARM-Linux based laptop for me are:

Running my obiquitious OS (Debian).
No fans and less heat on the lap (note that charging heats the battery which in turn heats the laptop. Though this is just 25 Minutes to charge up and this laptop [X13s] cools down very fast)
battery life (I can safely assume 6 heavy hours of no-plugin vim, REPL and browsing).

You may come up with downsizes and I bet I can address these with easy workarounds to stay within my requirements.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I get all those stated benefits on my Framework 13 AMD, except my battery life is longer.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

Yeah; Told you I am disappointed in some way.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

How? I barely get 6 hours of just browsing, and it can only suspend for a day.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Are you using power-profiles-daemon?

For Framework Laptop 13/16 AMD Ryzen™ 7040 Series configurations, you will absolutely want to use power-profiles-daemon for the absolute best experience. Do NOT use TLP.

https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/optimizing-ubuntu-battery-life-Sye_48Lg3

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yes, I am. I also set both the power profile and epp to power save.

Are you using Mario's patched ppd by chance?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I'm using whatever comes prepackaged with NixOS unstable: services.power-profiles-daemon.enable = lib.mkDefault true;

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

OMG I figured it out. English isn't your first language. THAT'S why you don't make any sense what-so-ever in almost every one of your comments. You basically have a child's understanding of the language coupled with the belief that you have mastered the language.

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

More insights I gained using this laptop (intended for the curious Linux enthusiast):

Kernel support for Audio and Screens is heavily dependend on user space: X.org and Wayland experience differs immensely. Even some udev-rules only work with certain compositors (and X11 feels like it is out of scope).
Debian lacks people contributing to the linux and linux-firmware package. The onboarding is quite steep due to a lack of alignment between code and documentation.
Developers if userspace programs react very fast to new requirements but they rely on upstreamed (to Debian's kernel-team) kernel-config's.
Prompting bugs to the kernel appears to be done through kernel contributors only: Users will prompt hindrances on IRC (via OTFC, #aarch64-laptops) prompting the contributor and they will verify and support before addressing issues.
There are archived advancements to the support which can't be merged due to citation reasons and alignment with upstream can't be done by the individual (there is a pareto-capable kernel for virtualization but within one week hunderts of commits need to get reviewed). This is impressive imo.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I assume the 2700 is SRP? Don't use SRP ever, it's total nonsense. It has in fact become such nonsense use of SRP in marketing/sales is actually illegal in the EU. Instead of it being an actual price point manufacturers intended for the product to be sold at, it's always always a factor of that. So shops could advertise with a 50% discount on SRP, to get at what is just the regular price and not even a good one at that. That was considered so misleading, SRP use is banned. Instead the marketing can only be based on actual lowest prices the product was for sale at.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I've never bought any of my laptops new because I can't wrap my head around how they justify those prices. $2700 for a laptop? I wouldn't pay $700 for a laptop, and I'm sure my PC is far more powerful than this laptop that I paid a fraction of the cost for.

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

If it comes with Windows pre installed, that's a big red flag for me. Also there will be the cost of a license for it included in the cost that MS will pocket giving nothing in return.

load more comments