Ask Lemmy

I haven't been proud to be an American in a long time. We were looking for a house, now we're debating if leaving is safer.

This country is doomed, and everyone who voted Trump deserves to burn in the fires they helped create. Fuck em, I have literally no sympathy left.

The flag doesn't bother me but the pledge to it does. The traitor flags (Confederate battle flag and one bearing a president's name) do.

If you think every time you see the US flag the person with it is a fascist get off the internet for a while. Most people are not nazis.

Team america, world police

We suck.

I don’t think you’re wrong at all.

Personally, I don’t hate the flag because for me it represents ideals that should be for everyone and that I should be fighting oppression of those against the dream. I have a very Captain America-esque view.

What I cringe and have disgust with are the citizens that want to tear down these just ideals or misrepresent and distort what we should be.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - I think Samuel Johnson's original meaning, of complaining about "false" patriots, strongly applies to your distaste for the flag. The idiots we see proudly waving their country flags (in Brazil, that'd be the bozonaristas) are using them as a cover for their prejudices and stupidity. They wouldn't be able to name a single thing they like about the country they love.

In my opinion, true patriotism requires being critical of your nation. A patriot doesn't blindly let their nation go to hell. The Republicans that have take the word "patriot" are not patriots, in my opinion. They've ruined the word. A patriot wants to find the issues with their nation and improve them, not yell about being the best and to ignore everything wrong.

Basically, yes. I feel the same as you about the flag, but because it's been used as a symbol of blind faith, not patriotism. I feel patriotic pride in being critical, not in saying a pledge or anything like that.

Even as a kid, I never understood how the USA flag could be a symbol of "freedom" while conscription exists. Today it has gone from a generally indifferent lie to borderline offensive

I am from Canada, and while the flag could go either way for me, mounties, even in their blood-red uniforms do turn my stomach. (Paintings by Kent Monkman, showcasing the "Sixties Scoop"

Our past further back has not been much help.

In addition to the physical appropriation of land was the colonial effort to eliminate the transmission of cultural identity, traditional skills, and connection to the land. Beginning in 1883 (while this was the date of the first federally established church school, similar institutions existed as early as the 1830s, years before Canadian federation) Indian Residential Schools (IRSs) were established in Canada (as were American Indian Boarding Schools in 1862). Children were forcibly removed from their families and were institutionalized in IRSs with the explicit goal of ‘taking the Indian out of the child’. These mandated church-run IRSs endeavoured to save the souls of the ‘savages’ by immersing them in Euro–Christian beliefs and eradicating access to traditional socialization values, language, practices and ways of life. By the 1930s, roughly 75% of First Nations children attended IRSs, as did many Métis and Inuit children. The last of the IRSs was closed in 1996, but by then several generations of children had experienced the mistreatment that abounded in these institutions.

Then to really prove we could be as evil as everyone thinks we're polite, we added this gem to our crown.

"It is readily acknowledged that Indian children lose their natural resistance to illness by habituating so closely in the residential schools, and that they die at a much higher rate than in their villages. But this alone does not justify a change in the policy of this Department, which is geared towards a final solution of our Indian Problem." -Duncan Campbell Scott to BC Indian Agent Gen. Major D. MacKay.

And there are those who say it is in the past, and everyone is crying over things from long ago, yet 1996 is not so long ago for Residential Schools, and our police deny any ongoing wrong-doings. I for one do not feel patriotism for our past, though I have some small hope for our future.

I'd say the only reason you didn't feel that before was ignorance, the American flag is NOT a thing of good. It has been fucked up from the very beginning. And to us who are not Americans, it's very obvious how much your country absolutely forces brainwashing of all citizens from the second they're born. American patriotism and love for the flag etc. is in the same way that for example a priest shows how much they're against homosexuality and other sins like it then they're found with child-p (I don't want to fully write it) and stuff like that. It's the school bully that screams about how cool and strong they are, when they're exactly the opposite.

No

No

Nope, same thing happened to me in Canada after the clown convoy. Canada Day was never the same nor celebrated since

No, you shouldn’t, because nearly half the country voted against Trump. It wasn’t enough, but it certainly indicates a significant portion of the country opposes him and the ideologies behind him. What we, as Americans, should be ashamed of is our pathetic educational system, which is at the root of this problem.

Both Republicans and Democrats are at the core of this problem. Republicans don’t want any public education at all and Democrats have polluted public education with Far Left propaganda that has fueled conservative rage and helped Far Right people divide the nation. Race and gender issues have eclipsed class issues, which are the real problems of the nation. As much as LGBT and racial groups deserve their particular rights, the real divisions at the heart of America are between the middle- and working-classes and the ultra-rich. Corporations are the prime devil that need to be taken down, not White men. Plenty of White men are suffering at the hands of corporations and they need to be woken up. The most recent election has shown that non-Whites are just as susceptible to Trump’s charms as anyone else. We need to stop focusing on superficial divisors such as race and gender and start focusing on class divisors much more.

Welcome to the club. People from other countries have these thoughts for some time already.

Tbh I think flag hate or angst is about as useful/less as flag worship. If you need something to be preoccupied with, why not make it a problem you can put that energy into doing something about where you live - like homeless people or food aid.

I might be reacting this way because I've been getting recent emails from my college about changing the school mascot, which is a "pioneer". When I was there I don't remember even being aware that there was a mascot. But apparently they think "pioneer" might be too closely associated with colonialism and they've decided this is an important issue. My attitude is create a Native American scholarship (or anything that actually does something) - don't obsess on imagery.

I am a US citizen but have been living abroad for the last 4.5 years. I can get by with Norwegian language but didn’t really feel hyper compelled to speak it all the time as English is spoken widely and well here. But especially since the inauguration it’s like, I don’t want strangers to realise that not only am I a foreigner, I’m an American. I try to be a good ambassador through my actions and words, but there’s only so much I can do to distance myself from broad brush strokes of “Americans” anymore and honestly is embarrassing. Also I feel deeply sad that I feel like I can never go home. That place just isn’t real anymore.

"All men are created equal"

IS SLAVE STATE

Always has been

As a Canadian, my favourite thing about the American flag is there isn't a lot of room for a 51st star on there. It would break the symmetry.

As to our maple leaf, I've had mixed feelings about it. As a kid, I thought it was cute and friendly as national flags go. Then later, watching assholes in Dodge Rams with the flag whipping around next to their Fuck Trudeau stickers during that aggravatingly endless trucker rally left me less enthused. But now with Trump threatening annexation, I've rediscovered its beauty!

I'm with you. I'm on vacation in a foreign country. There was a performance and part of it was asking the crowd where they were from. I felt no enthusiasm when the performer asked the crowd to cheer if they were from the USA. It felt shameful.

I would advise you not to hate people you don’t know just because they fly a flag but your feelings are valid. Nationalism is a toxic ideology founded in violence and oppression at its very core.

What you're feeling is rationality. Nationalism is an extension of basic primal instinct humans have developed to protect their tribe, but it is only detrimental to modern life.

The same happens in Spain if you are leftist since the civil war, even before maybe.

You aren't unjustified in this. Politics has become a complex web, and it's difficult to grasp a singular feeling for the nation they pertain to, such as pride, especially when you politicize something like the flag. Even if your stance is on the other side of the spectrum, this is on America.