this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2025
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Average journalctl avoider
Oh hey a Linux furry. Never seen that on Lemmy before
Xenia is about as old as Tux, and was proposed as a Linux mascot back in the 90's
She's actually been parr of quite a few memes on here, so, now you're in it too :)
I read the title and thought it referred to Xenia the Xbox 360 emulator which recently gained Linux support, that didn't make sense.
And I thought it was Xena the Warrior Princess and was hella confused
A transfem Linux furry. Completely unheard of on Lemmy.
my pearls.
I still don't know what people use to create services other than systemd
If you're writing bash scripts you're basically replicating a lot of the functionality of systemd but with larger foot guns
The system V init approach did the job fine for a couple of decadesβeven if the actual service definitions were a glorified shell switch statement as you insinuate.
Canonical did their upstart thing for a couple of years that wasn't too bad to use, personally I'm glad they ended up switching to systemd though.
Abaci and mechanical differentiators did the job just fine for a couple centuries.
Just go back to rocks on a scale we'll be fine
If you're writing bash scripts you're basically replicating a lot of the functionality of systemd
You have that backwards
If you're writing Systemd profile profile profiles you're replicating shell scripts but with a lot of spongey unknown "come on, pumpkin" cancer code that you're only sure will do what you think because you don't know what suddenly capriciously changed in enterfuckingprize code and boy is your remote server screwed. Fuck me if I need to actually rely on something starting.
No one said sysV is awesome. It's built to best practice and it does what it does really well, but that's not a lot. But it does it well. Oh, the days Systemd has ruined trying to work half as well as ; well fuck, every alternative.
The days Systemd doesn't ruin, it's the other cancer, network manager and 'consistent' naming. And devices that don't come up. And devices that don't actually assign a fucking static goddamned address. #youHadOneJob
Spot the parts of enterprise Linux that runs like shit and barely does the same thing twice on two identical adjacent boxes, and I'll show you some whiz kid who shat out some cancer and went to go work at Microsoft.
So. Anyway, because the reliable stuff came before Systemd's change-for-lulz setup, you had them in the wrong order unless you have a time machine.
Maybe the arguments against systemd are issues of the past. I see people, hating systemd, bringing the same arguments of it being unstable, or constantly breaking, again and again.
However, I don't remember actually coming across any of those problems, or discussions about them, for the past 5+ years that I have been using Linux both for my computers and servers.
I have used Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, Arch, Proxmox, NixOS. All of them use systemd.
They only problem I remember facing with systemd, which is actually never mentioned by anti-systemd people, is about its containers system, nspawn, which enables some security features by default. Those break things that tend to work with LXC without much tweaking. Docker, for example, may face issues running inside nspawn.
Systemd is actually way more reliable than other solutions. Forget things like cron and startup scripts. Systemd can monitor and automatically try to restart software.
Systemd hate mostly boils down to hating change
Been using systemd for at least 6 year now, and yes it is indeed quite stable.
But making startup services is hot garbage, and accessing system logs is even worse. journalctl is an unapproachable mess, and I really don't like the idea that systemd is kind of slowly replacing the linux kernel in its entirety.
It doesnt affect my day to day as a normal user, but when I switch to power user mode its... It makes maintaining my system very unenjoyable.
For me personally systemd is much better especially for services and logs. It creates a consistent environment and provides lots of features like sandboxing and failure detection. I really don't like how some software dumps random logs everywhere and having a proper database is nice. Journalctl is tricky to learn but it is nicer than trying to manage text files.
We literally have /var/log/ as a well-known standard though. Almost every piece of linux-standard software dumps to a subfolder by the app name in there. Systemd should at the very least have the capability to mirror there so you can get at the logs in a sane way.
I can't say I agree but I see where you are coming from.
Amen.
Very much this, why is systemd entangling itself in every part of the linux kernel, I ripped that mfer network-manager and installed iwd
I'm on guix-sd and don't have to suffer systemd
cringe
Yeah, more like "cringe deez nuts."
fair point
the fuck is this?
"Systemd controversy"
I think the controversy ended 10 years ago. It is crazy this is still something people will bring up from time to time.
Unlike Extended Memory.
I still say you EM users are playing with fire.
furry
hates systemd
thinks anyone still uses PulseAudio
Three wrong opinions in such a short post, impressive.
calling furries wrong opinions in a Linux community
That's a bold move Cotton let's see if it pays off
How is furry an opinion?
And how can an opinion be wrong?
You can not say someone is wrong hating someone/something, if they do it, it is a fact and if not, it is a lie. And you have no way proving that.
And lastly, thinking that most people use PulseAudio is a supposed fact, which can be true or false, but is not an opinion neither.
But you can definitely say that your opinion is that furry as a culture is wrong, that hating systemd is wrong and that thinking anyone still uses PulseAudio is wrong.
I must add, you have strange opinionsβ¦
Well, opinions can be wrong. When someone says an opinion is wrong they don't mean that it's not true that you have that opinion, but rather that it's an opinion you should not have.
And some opinions like any other ideas are just wrong. You are entitled to have them, just as much as you are entitled to be wrong, it doesn't change the fact that it's wrong.
For example "we should change math so that 25+75=100" is an example of a wrong opinion.
βI think, we should change math so that 25+75=100β is an opinion and it can not be wrong since you can not forcefully change opinions of persons that arenβt you.
βWe should change math so that 25+75=100β is a fact which can be true or false.
"I think we should ..." is not an opinion, it is a factual statement about an opinion ("we should...) which you have, and thus it's either true or false depending on whether you have that opinion ("it's true that you think ...") or not ("it's not true that you think").
An opinion might be right or wrong if it's an opinion you should or should not have, some of course are neither because not everything in life is just yes or no. Opinions about facts that are false or facts that are true are easily categorized as wrong and right opinions.
"75+25=110" is an example of a true statement and thus a right opinion to have. "We should change 75+25 to be 100" is a false statement and thus an opinion that you shouldn't have. "Pirandello is better than D'Annunzio" is neither true nor false, but you can still think that and hold it as an opinion, like I do, "I think Pirandello ..." is a true statement about my opinion.
In my opinion you are entitled to hold an opinion regardless whether it's true or wrong or neither.
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I am typing this from a device which uses PulseAudio (FuriLabs FLX1 phone). I wish it used pipewire instead, but for now I don't really have a choice. Pipewire doesn't work yet with everything on this phone, so everyone with this phone is using PulseAudio (unless they don't want working audio).
I don't get all the hate for systemd. Chop Suey is an absolute banger.
ngl I quite enjoy using systemd
I hace a Xenia sticker on a machine that enthusiastically runs SysD.
Well you shouldn't. Take it off immediately, systemd or the sticker, either will do. She's stated her position on the matter, and you should respect that!
(/jk I'm not actually having a go at you, stickers are cool, and systemd is pervasive)
Was gonna ask what's wrong with Systemd but decided to look it up and I now see why, at least from what I was reading.
I mean, if you want an init (e.g. embedded linux), sysd may not be way you want. On desktops, tho, you ultimately end up hacking together more or less the same functionality with sticks'n'shit. And yes, sysd timers are more readable than crontab, sue me.
Edit: the point is, sysd is not (only) an init.
It's fine, people will whine about anything.
Ah, thanks for the reminder! As a happy systemd user I sometimes forget how stubbornly resentful some people in the Linux community are that they still try to keep this up as a topic. Then again, maybe this is just a troll?
Systemd is great
I love Podman Quadlets
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