this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2025

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"it is absolutely not a safe space for marginalized folks" - r/plural users on Matrix (reddthat.com)

submitted 6 days ago by OccultIconoclast@reddthat.com to c/fediverselore@lemmy.ca

11 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Matrix user of almost a decade here. A PluralKit-like project actually does exist, a friend/ former partner of Ours developed it.

They are no longer on Matrix, and We wish We could follow suit. Do not use Matrix, it is absolutely not a safe space for marginalized folks by any stretch of imagination.

We know this because We were the defacto head of the last public safe space that was left standing, a feat only accomplished by terribly dedicated helpers (mods) and programmers who would make custom tooling for that community. It wasn't enough.

See, not only is Nev Vector Inc. very corporate oriented, they're actively hostile to community contributions. You can loudly yell about flaws that are easy to abuse, or make full code submissions of things that have been hotly requested for years, and it will be entirely ignored, if it doesn't directly align with their corporate interests.

Right now most of those who remained are scattered in a new community that's bridged between Discard, which at least does something to prevent the worst cases of abuse, and Revolt, which is still a pretty basic project feature set wise, compared to Matrix and Discard, but you can tell that it's made with actual care, it's also EU based.

Yeah, this lines up with what we've heard from a number of other people, sadly... that Matrix has been more interested in pandering to cops, governments, and corporations rather than building safe and respectful tech for everyday people. And that yes, you could self-host, but that it's a nightmare that they have no intent of making easier because it would conflict with their managed hosting services. Not to mention ongoing issues with metadata and loopholes that can be used for abuse. Unfortunate.

https://www.reddit.com/r/plural/comments/1iyp159/encrypted_pluralkit/mf7v50f/

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[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

fuck yeah, we're finally airing out Matrix's business?

"Matrix is not a community-based software, it was born [00] in Amdocs [01], a multinational corporation founded in Israel.

On the Internet we find many pieces of information connecting Amdocs with Israel’s Intelligence [02][03][04]. We do not know if it is because they wanted to wash their image, but allegedly Amdocs does not own the project anymore. A new organization, New Vector, was created for Matrix. Nevertheless the same people work there [05] and the project keeps being generously funded [06]."

https://hackea.org/notas/matrix.html#leak

[–] m_f@discuss.online 19 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Matrix dev's response:

sigh. If you want to play project pedigree games; Matrix was actually the result of two existing teams - one in the UK and one in France, which happened to get acquired by Amdocs and then subsequently spun out once we'd created Matrix.

That page in particular is a pile of FUD; it keeps banging on about "impressive collection of private data being sent to Matrix central servers, even when you use your own instance" which is simply categorically untrue; it looks like they misread the privacy policy of the Matrix.org server at https://github.com/element-hq/policies/blob/master/docs/matrix-org/privacy_notice.md and somehow assumed it applied to everyone's server instances. It doesn't, any more than https://www.w3.org/policies/privacy applies to a given random webserver on the internet :|

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40562084

[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 6 days ago

interesting, I'll look over them

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Making fun of people for believing they have a mental illness that was made up for a book deal like 40 years ago seems like pretty low hanging fruit...

Like, they clearly don't have the fictionalized version of DiD. But they're not mentally well and are playing into a delusion

But punching down is never "fun".

[–] OccultIconoclast@reddthat.com 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Most plural systems don't claim to have DID at all. Endogenic plurality is an established concept in the community and it's valid. The concerns this user raises about Matrix seem to be backed up by strong evidence.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Most plural systems don’t claim to have DID at all.

Right, they got tired of people explaining why they don't have did so they invented a thing and act like it's real instead.

That doesn't make it real...

Which is why I said:

Like, they clearly don’t have the fictionalized version of DiD

[–] OccultIconoclast@reddthat.com 2 points 6 days ago

And you think every thought in your head only comes from one consciousness? I dunno, that seems way more made up to me. Dreams, intrusive thoughts, autopilot; the idea that you're only a single person is a lot harder to believe than plurality.

[–] atro_city@fedia.io 7 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I don't understand this. Why isn't matrix a safe space? Don't the instance owners decide who's in and who's out? What's it got to do with matrix?

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 8 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I have no idea either. They didn't bring up anything specific. I run my own matrix server and I am 100% in control.

If someone was an asshole, then... Ban them from your space? Or from your community? There are always assholes, they seem to be upset that they weren't banned from the entire platform, which says to me that they do not understand the concept at all.

For code contributions, well, matrix is a protocol. We can make forks or even our own completely separate from matrix.org software. I use Cinny to connect to my synapse, so partially from them and partially not. Idk, I am not convinced they understand federation well

[–] koncertejo@lemmy.ml 6 points 5 days ago

Shame people are using this as an opportunity to bash on plural people rather than discuss the clear and obvious ways that Matrix has fallen short of what it could/should be. Same thing happens whenever I mention I'm polyamorous, it's still one of those acceptable /r/unpopularopinion type beats that everyone goes crazy for.

Anyways I'm considering IRC or XMPP for my next internet hangout spot, let me know if something better comes along.

[–] OccultIconoclast@reddthat.com 3 points 6 days ago

This is an aside not related to the post topic, but I always like seeing systems that use capitalised pronouns around the internet. I think Lemmy used to have one, but I haven't seen Them in a while