HistoryPorn

CCP is brutal against any form of resistance. China is the only developed country with firewall that censors normal every day words.

China is an absolute autocracy and everytime people advocate for it I can't help but cringe. But hey did you see how developed they are - you can even pay with your fingerprint 🙄

Not trying to be banned or anything, just genuinely confused about the topic. We are reading online articles about something that happened 'long' ago, far away, that can be pointing to one way or the opposite. For me is very difficult to trust one article more than other.. It looks like people that want to believe one side will find something to back their opinion and vicecersa. I don't agree when you say this is 'easily' verifiable. At least I don't find it easily to verify. Happy to be pointed to some source/direction to investigate more.

F yeah

They are headed for decline anyhow. The corruption and boondoggles are still happening regardless of their media reporting on it and as a group the party was able to cover it's ass fairly well over the years but now their focus is on protecting one Pooh Bear shaped individual. Divided priorities is leading to some epically bad decisions.

In the 90s, I found a second-hand book published in English by the PRC (can't remember which ministry) giving the then-official line: that the brave soldiers of the PLA resolutely faced down the forces of a foolhardy counter-revolution and saved Socialism.

Only later came the complete memory-holing.

There was a reddit post of pictures of the massacre that were very detailed and graphic. Came out a few years ago. These were never before seen pictures that the redditor had kept for years and decided to release them. I wish I had had the for thought to save them cause I can't find that post again at all. Only things there now are the same pics you see everywhere else.

I have to say though, it is amazingly annoying that nearly any search for Tiananmen Square usually just returns the "tank man" pictures, as if that's all there was to it.

These are disproved very fast by the fact that the chinese government doesnt want you to talk about it. Governments dont usually create whole censor campaigns around things that never happened. And before you say us this and us that, the us is also trying to cober things up and we also know a lot of those things because they get leaked. Talking about the us is a classic tankie move because it diverts your attention from the actual thing you were talking about, china. Just move to europe if you can and help in making a place that isnt an absolute shithole because sadly, currently europe is getting really close to that status.

I mean, given the climate, feels a little prophetic about where the US is heading.

Same. Every time I see it, I think about that

Ground up into paste and scraped off the ground.

Tale as old as time

True as it can be

Never even friends

Then somebody bends

Unsurprisingly

Just a little change

Smallest in the least

All a little scared

No one was prepared

Working v Elite

Okay, hold onto your hats:

Fenby’s 'History of Modern China' is epic and magisterial but far too long for this (goes back to the mid-1800s), while McGregor’s 'The Party' is good for post-‘89 but doesn’t really touch the topics you’re interested in.

Richard Kraus' books 'Very Short Introduction' series is apparently excellent.

Two I’ve not read but come recommended:

The Cultural Revolution: A People’s History, 1962–1976 – Frank Dikötter

Tombstone: The Great Chinese Famine, 1958-1962 — Yang Jisheng (not strictly what your internet stranger asked about, but the roots of the Cultural Revolution are surely to be found in Mao’s Great Leap Forward.)

Finally there is also a doco 'China's Cultural Revolution: The Full Story' - on YT/NewPipe etc. - quite good!

I hope you find some answers to your queries!

Sit tight; I will ask my bro-in-law. He will, no doubt, have an answer. If not, he'll at least have a reason why it doesn't exist 😆 Recommendation incoming.

I mean, there were warning signs before June 4th. Those who left before probably survived. As for those who stayed, and if they managed to survive that day, they would probably be identified and arrested, but some managed to escape to then UK-controlled Hong Kong.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowbird

Yellowbird successfully helped more than 400 dissidents, who were smuggled through Hong Kong, and then onwards to Western countries. Notable escapees include Wu'erkaixi, Chai Ling, Li Lu, Feng Congde, Chen Yizi, and Su Xiaokang. Three Hong Kong–based activists were arrested by the Chinese authorities, but later released after the intervention of the Hong Kong government.

As for the rest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre#Arrests,_punishments,_and_evacuations

The 21 most-wanted student leaders' faces and descriptions were often broadcast on television. Photographs with biographies of the leaders followed in this order: Wang Dan, Wuer Kaixi, Liu Gang, Chai Ling, Zhou Fengsuo, Zhai Weimin, Liang Qingdun, Wang Zhengyun, Zheng Xuguang, Ma Shaofang, Yang Tao, Wang Zhixing, Feng Congde, Wang Chaohua, Wang Youcai, Zhang Zhiqing, Zhang Boli, Li Lu, Zhang Ming, Xiong Wei, and Xiong Yan.

Each of the 21 students faced diverse experiences after their arrests or escapes; while some remain abroad with no intent to return, others have chosen to stay indefinitely, such as Zhang Ming. Only 7 of the 21 were able to escape. Some student leaders, such as Chai Ling and Wuer Kaixi, were able to escape to the United States, the United Kingdom, France, and other Western nations

The remaining student leaders were apprehended and incarcerated. Those who escaped, whether in 1989 or after, generally have had difficulty re-entering China up to this day. The Chinese government has preferred to leave the dissidents in exile. Those who attempt to re-enter, such as Wu'er Kaixi, have been simply sent back but not arrested.

Chen Ziming and Wang Juntao were arrested in late 1989 for their involvement in the protests. Chinese authorities alleged they were the "black hands" behind the movement. Both Chen and Wang rejected the allegations made against them. They were put on trial in 1990 and sentenced to 13 years in prison. Others, such as Zhang Zhiqing, have essentially disappeared. After his initial arrest in January 1991 and subsequent release, nothing further is known about his situation and where he lives now. Zhang Zhiqing's role and reason for being listed on the 21 most wanted is generally unknown; this is the case for many others on the list, such as Wang Chaohua.

According to the Dui Hua Foundation, citing a provincial government, 1,602 individuals were imprisoned for protest-related activities in early 1989. As of May 2012, at least two remain incarcerated in Beijing, and five others remain unaccounted for. In June 2014, it was reported that Miao Deshun was believed to be the last known prisoner incarcerated for their participation in the protests; he was last heard from a decade ago.

Also, some of the leadership got purged:

The party leadership expelled Zhao Ziyang from the Politburo Standing Committee (PSC). Hu Qili, another PSC member who opposed martial law but abstained from voting, was also removed from the committee.

As bad as it may sound, remember that, during Imperial China, they would all just lose their head, like the Emperor would literally order your head to be cut off. It could've been much worse.