this post was submitted on 19 Mar 2025
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The EU announced its 800 billion euro plan to re-arm the EU with Trump being an unpredictable partner and Putin in the east (read more here if you want to know more).

I would like to get your opinions on this from an anarchistic viewpoint because I struggle to give one. As an anarchist I don't like the idea of a central army (let alone an EU one). Also, to get this 800 billion, countries and the EU have to borrow more money in a world that is already effectively running on debt without a proper way out.

On the other hand, I also understand people I speak to their opinions. Both Trump and Putin are unpredictable so I also understand that people want to feel safer by investing in the army. They also find it a waste of money but if we neglect the army, we might one day face the consequence of that.

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[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

They're all fascist garbage. USA and Russia are obviously trash empires. People somehow think Europe is better but it's still a white supremacist empire based on colonialism, exploitation, etc.

The fact that all of these terrible groups are wasting endless resources on murdering people should not be supported or celebrated. While I do think that it would be better for Europe to defend itself rather than be dominated by USA, Russia, etal, it's still a huge loss for humanity. The perpetrator is still the state, capitalism, imperialism, etc. - a system cooperatively maintained by every state and the violent global system of statehood. The same people and classes will profit regardless of their state's nationalist branding. That's the actual enemy.

[–] Vincentvd@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago

For sure. Arm manufacturers are already lining up to fill their capitalistic pockets. In the meantime, their rare metals are extracted under bizarre conditions in former colonies or China.

[–] Zzyzx@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 3 days ago (1 children)

My first impression:

Funny how 15 years ago there wasn't €800 billion to help common citizens in the face of global recession. Instead we all had to go on an austerity course that allowed everything that helped the average citizen to decay, if it wasn't outright cut. And now all these mainstream parties are running terrified of the far-right that seized on the fertile ground they left with these actions. But when it comes time to dump more money into massive industries, then there's always more to be found.

Even in Germany the Holy Grail of politics that has kneecapped any effort to widen social services or address climate breakdown can finally be done away with. In order to dump money into the armaments industry, which (speaking non-ideologically and purely from a practical perspective) at least in the German case is massively putting the cart before the horse. The Bundeswehr is a joke, and has been for at least 15 years. They've been trying to reform it, which it needs before anyone throws money at it.

As far as wanting to feel safer, well I would contest the idea that dumping money into weapons actually makes people safer. We have seen such periods of military spending before in history, and they usually don't make the world safer. Rather they make politicians feel more confident that, since they have a thousand hammers, everything must be a nail.

I hate that calls for peace have become hijacked by far-right parties that are only interested in either business with a kleptocratic irredentist authorianism in Russia or want to mirror that polis in their own countries. We need to work out a new perspective that doesn't fall into blind militarism while also avoiding becoming targets for neo-imperialist forces. I don't know what such a movement would look like practically, but perhaps we can take inspiration from anti-imperial movements of the 19th and 20th centuries.

[–] Vincentvd@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Fair point that more wapons dont solve the problem. Didnt think of that. But an easy counter argument will be that as long as others keep investing in weapons, we also need.

It is interesting to think about how to prevent neo imperialism forces taking your country. In the Netherlands even the middle-left parties agree to strengthen the EU. They all somehow want to show their voters they fight for their safety.

I must say that especially the EU and their decisions feel really far away and out of reach. They really don't see (or don't want to) see the long term consequences of their actions. A single country can't make the difference in the EU.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

This sounds a bit like you are falling for the popular game of EU-washing that many local politicians like to play, i.e. push for something at EU level and later claim there is nothing they could have done against it because it was decided by those up there in the EU.

In general the EU is far, far from being the "United states of Europe" and most of the controversial decisions are actually taken by national leaders circumventing the EU and its institutions like the EU parliament. The EU commission is largely just a bureaucratic organ to EU-wash the general neoliberal consensus of local politicians.

And from an anarchist perspective, it is IMHO preferable to have some far away aloof bureaucrats occupying themselves with some non-sense of little relevance and which you can largely ignore, than a local autocratic government that is breathing down your neck.

[–] Vincentvd@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

But a local autocratic government feels more reachable to change. The EU actually costs you a lot of money - and true, we also earn money by trade and other collaborations so it is not all negative - but after we vote, it feels like things just continue as normal. They interfere in areas where they should make policy for and now they decide that we as EU should spend 800 billion on defense.

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Afaik only 150b of that is actual new, the rest is just relabled national funding already previously committed. The EU likes to pretend they are doing something big, when in reality its the individual states doing it mostly.

As for not being able to change anything at EU level... that is of course by design so that the national governments can retain control. Very little is actually decided on EU level, most of it is backdoor deals of changing groups of national governments.

[–] Vincentvd@lemmy.ml 1 points 20 minutes ago

I wanted to know the answer so I looked it up. The 650bn is paid by increasing the country defense spending. Each country is able to loan more only for the purpose of defense spending. But that 650bn has to come from somewhere so I assume that would mean cutting the cost else were (e.g. of social service). More info: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_25_790

[–] poVoq@slrpnk.net 16 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I don't think an EU army is necessarily a bad thing. By itself it isn't worse than a national army (low bar, I know), but disagreements between nations will make it hard to use for foreign intervention purposes and deep integration will make it hard for parts of it to be used against other parts of it.

And once you think about an EU army it becomes quite clear that cost savings possible by cooperating that way are much better that burning lots of borrowed money on multiple national white elephants like currently often the case.

[–] Vincentvd@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago

Good point. One of the actually valid reasons for the EU to exist, cooperate. Not like the current state where the is basically an unite states of Europe but rather bringing together the countries to work together but still respecting their sovereignty.

[–] 5714@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 days ago

Democratise the armies, make them voluntary.

If somehow people in Europe became anarchists and got a backbone overnight, this rearmament would be necessary as well, with Russia and the USA on the loom. It would come from different political scales, but economically Europe needs an answer either way. The Cold War divide was not good for European autonomy and its perversion will neither.