Very interesting history and culture, plastered over with bland authoritarian turbo-capitalism that disguises itself as communism.
this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2025
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winnie the pooh
Uyghur people in concentration camps while tourists invade their homes
There are vanishingly few tourists in Xinjiang. Indeed they won't even give you a visa if you say you're going there.
A ruthlessly effective technocracy that has achieved very impressive outcomes for their citizens¹ while also being a cultural / societal system I never want to live in. For some reason super obsessed with outside appearances.
1:
From 1995 to 2025:
- GDP/c: 603 to 13973
- Literacy rates: 77% to 96%
- University graduates per year: 900K to 10M
- Life expectancy: 33 to 77
- Railway km: 54616 to 160000 (50000 high speed)
- Urbanization rate: 29% to 67%
etc.
I like the idea that these were your first impressions of China, as in you stepped off a plane, had one look around and thought "Wow, this place seems like a ruthlessly effective technocracy that has achieved very impressive outcomes for its citizens but it's certainly a cultural-slash-societal system I never want to live in."
Massive cities with LED buildings, beautiful mountains with paved hiking trails all the way to the top and gondolas to get down, Long queues that are still orderly and move quickly, families eating large meals outside, friendly and very curious people.
I've spent a lot of time there. Compared to the west the cost of living is super cheap especially for all the options and amenities you get. Even in the hippest part of Chongqing I could rent an apartment 2x the size of my house for half the mortgage. If the US is headed towards a permanent authoritarian regime I would trade life here for over there. At least their dictator appreciates science and education.
Their authoritarian form of government which is definitely making me not want to ever visit China.
I am sure China is otherwise a wonderful country, I don't have a negative opinion of Taiwan at all, but the PRC needs their Gorbachev to come to power and liberate them.
Thiefs, low quality, dictatorship, murders, will probably try to fuck up my life in the future.
Dude that is the USA. They do have knife guys occasionally but nothing is as terrifying as being a US grade student with an active shooter warning on campus. Besides Japan I've never felt safer that over there.
Do you folk have any other talking points than "but USA bad"? This question is not about USA, it's about fucking China.
You sure nothing's as terrifying? I think being an Uyghur in a Chinese concentration camp might be even worse.
Well I can't speak from a Chinese/Uyghur perspective, only from what I know and have seen. I doubt you will find many Chinese residents that would say China is more dangerous than the US. A more divided opinion here for sure. The data proves it, in total murders and per capita. I've been all over their cities at all times of night and would not do that here, especially in the city I live in now. The things you are saying that is bad about China I think is worse here. I don't think any Chinese resident is worried about getting shot while driving down the highway and I've lived thru those periods here, in the places it was happening. Just doing a direct comparison. If you've visited China I would find it hard to believe you would find it more dangerous.
No, it probably isn't more dangerous in the direct sense. But it's more dangerous in the subtler ways. Look, I'm from a country where we had the Soviet bland of dictatorship disguised as communism and let me tell you it's very similar to the Chinese bland.
You have to censor your opinions because you might end up in prison for saying the wrong thing to the wrong people. And the worst thing, you don't know what you're missing because the government and its secret police tries really hard to make sure you don't know how much better it is.
I believe that you had a superb time as a tourist in China, after all they only show you the good parts as a tourist. You're simply not allowed anywhere that might shed light on their propaganda.
I'm not saying US is some kind of utopia or whatever, but pretending China is a good country to live in is crazy and dangerous.
I lived there for 2 years. I'm familiar with the propaganda. It was easy for me to ignore since I wasn't going to be a permanent resident.
I see the same propaganda here. its gotten us in multiple unwinnable wars and is now stripping away our democracy. It's why we have terrible, expensive healthcare and why gun related deaths are the #1 killer of children. Neither place is utopia. But now I get to worry about my country deporting naturalized citizens which is a thing I never thought I needed to worry about.
The internet has really fucked my brain, because the first thing that comes up in my head is an old meme of The Orange One (back when he hadn't been president yet, and so was funny instead of scary) saying "CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA CHINA" (sorry)
AFTER that -- Disney's Mulan, and all the orientalist aesthetics that come with it (sorry²)
And AFTER that -- Years of internet discourse trying to convince me that a growth in Chinese international power would be worse than the US holding that position alone, which I find EXTREMELY hard to believe as a third world citizen whose home nation has been fucked in the butthole by the Americans like seven different times in lived memory (NOT sorry)
Then AFTER that -- The stories told by my one friend who lived there for a few months. To be honest they made China seem like a pretty cool place to live in. Or at the very least, a fun experience as an exchange student.
And AFTER all that -- Bootleg video games. They are interesting!
Order. Conformity. Mystery. Impenetrable language. Impossible writing. Eating anything that moves. Mindless nationalism. People who don't talk or even care about politics. Depressed single young people obsessed with shopping. Security cameras. Police. Airport-sized train stations. Electric scooters. Electric cars. Utopian-dystopian sci-fi.
Yes, I have been there multiple times.
PS: to be clear, I was very, very impressed by those trains and especially by the electrification of city transport. In Shenzhen the air is now cleaner than any big city in the West and with all the greenery and silence it really does have a utopian feel. The progress there is genuine, it's amazing, it deserves lots and lots of credit.
Authortarianism and censorship to the point where I can never return to my former homeland until that changes for the better. No worker's rights. Human rights issues in the north and west in areas that weren't part of China historically.
Possible conflict with Taiwan (if that happens than I'd be sent to the camps to die by orange cheeto, unless I leave).
1.4 billion people & had the One Child policy for the longest time.
Lots of enviornmental problems, air pollution (and apparently much of the country has really really hot heat indices in the summer, avg high of 40C and low of 30C already.... no thanks).
Really difficult language to learn (tried to learn it back when I was in school, couldn't really and basically forgot it all).
Unfortunately, it's trump squinting his eyes, and saying "China!" with a pause and a scowl. Rent free in my brain.
Second thing I guess is some bullshit where they were cracking down on Ramadan in a news article.
Third I suppose is the rich history and cultural tradition.
Complicated. Big.
A collection of a wide range of geography, languages, and peoples. Held together by a mix of national pride, iron fist, and a solid record of on the whole very good for most people improvements in life quality in living memory.
Big. Brazen. Splashy. But with an inability to face problems, and a resignation to the world as is. An almost fatalistic attitude paired with naïve or blind optimism on its dexter side.
A place filled with potential, as well as already existing food, culture, history. But hard to find much of it as modernity does a speed run towards uniformity and mass production, while historical sites are rebuilt as poured concrete facsimiles.
Chinese food, which i love.
Overall amazing history and culture. Government is authoritarian worse than the current US. The Chinese people are smart and kind and very innovative overall. But among billions there is also a lot of fraud and copying.
Give it 6 months and the current US will be more authoritarian.
Technology city of Shenzhen, mountain range, great wall, Mulan, winnie the pooh, three kingdom, wuxia story, and mala peppercorn.
Ohh and it's my ancestral land.
My stance is kind of 50/50 with China.
For one, they're going to flame out even faster than America did. As time moves forward great powers last less and less time. America only held the crown for 80 years. Chinas got its own issues, especially with the population issues.
Yes, China has a laundry list of human rights abuses. We know all of them, I shouldn't have to list them here. China also is an aggressor country, harassing their neighbors and intimidating them for often no reason at all, and when there is a reason, it's territorial expansion. They steal IP, they steal identities and secrets (yes I know, stealing secrets is an everybody issue, and I'll get to that, but it's usually done with more class) and they gave our kids toys with lead in them. You could seriously go on for days on the bad stuff about China. The belt and road? Fuck, that's so, so bad... However
They're also leading in science and especially the environment. They've spent big money on their science, and it's paid off in spades for them and it's commendable from an international standpoint. No country on earth is fighting climate change harder than China. From advances in solar panels bringing the cost of clean energy down, and giving the ability to electrify places of the world that have never experienced it? That's pretty dope. Plus their electric car tech is blowing up so hard that it's actually kind of reasonable to tariff it, because they're so far ahead.
Now the gre(a)y, I'm an American. Half the shit that china does that's bad, was shit that we have been doing for generations. So yeah, china sucks shit. But does it suck more shit than America right now? I say no, but not by much, and mostly because a lot of the problems people try to put on China (i.e. pollution mostly) is because we facilitated that. If not them, it'd be our polluted air and water. And now, he wants to bring that manufacturing back here while deregulating pollutants AND enforcement. He saw 1990s Beijing and said "I want that for us". But basically, other than China's climate and science goals, were the same country. So the nod (barely) goes to China for being a more honorable or good country.
Rude, impolite and loud people. But not all Chinese people are like that. But the ones that are stand out the most.
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I think of China as a country that pretends to be communist while making cheap products that vary in quality. I also think of the nice people that live there though.
Horrific dictatorship that commits atrocities.
People that have been subjugated and oppressed and have little to no value as humans to the CCP.
Became a world power by exploiting the working class.
Beautiful country and amazing history.
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Absolutely fascinated by Chinese culture and mythology. I’m a cdrama fan especially costume and cultivation themes. I am currently taking a Mandarin course so I can read, write, and better understand the language. I hope to travel to China soon if the orange clown in the White House doesn’t ruin my plans. I even homebrewed a cultivation ttrpg based on Investiture of The Gods that my friends are playing through right now. They love it! For context I’m not an Asian person - just a neurodivergent person with a deep interest.
Edit: sorry didn’t recognize your lol username, you’ve probably seen me bloviate on my xianxia addiction before.
I'm into Taoism, so I think of Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu and Chinese philosophy. I love their sense of humor, and humility. I often daydream of a different life, being raised a monk in the Himalayas. A place I like to imagine when mediating
Eh, it's a country. I do dig American Chinese food, I know it's not the same.
Chinese slave-workers helped build the American West, their contribution and sacrifice is rarely recognized.
Such an enormous country. Old people doing tai chi in a park. Little kids earning red stars at school. Government trying to control the population too tightly, yet somehow also lacking basic safety regulations. Good food.
a plate
Wing Chun Kung Fu.
Proper tea.
Tofu Dreg.
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