this post was submitted on 17 Apr 2025
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Late Stage Capitalism

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submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 
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[–] [email protected] 63 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Every single fucking time: THIS IS THE FUTURE UNDER COMMUSOCIALMARXISM!

endless pictures of current capitalism conditions, usually centered around homeless people

Yeah, it sure is a good thing we have capitalism to make sure that every person is taken care of and nobody gets fed to the orphan grinding machine.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I knew this die-hard conservative MAGA guy, and we kept having this argument. He would constantly point out the homeless camps in California, blaming it on their "Socialist policies". I kept pointing out that California has more billionaires than any other state, has the 5th largest economy in the world, and if that's not the model of a successful Capitalist state, then what is? His answer was Texas. I felt like bashing my head against a brick wall.

That dude was nuts, but at one point I wore him down and got him to admit that CEOs are useless at best, and evil at worst. And I swear to God, he said "yeah, companies should just get rid of CEOs and be owned by the workers who vote on how to run the company." My jaw hit the fucking floor. When I pulled up the Wikipedia page for Socialism, he completely reversed course. CEOs were suddenly very necessary and good again.

He was so close.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I would never let him live that admission down.

Every day I'd be reminding him about what cognitive dissonance is, and that he was all for a policy change until he learned that the belief he held and was ACTIVELY ADVOCATING FOR aligns with an ideology that someone who makes a lot more money than he does told him to hate.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 months ago (8 children)

Pure versions of each have their flaws. Mixed-economics yields the highest quality of life according to the top ranking nations on the World Happiness Report. Nordic nations have the blueprint. We just need to adopt it.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Nordic nations is still exploitive capitalism.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 months ago (64 children)

There are a few problems here.

  1. All economies are "mixed," ergo it isn't a meaningful distinction. What is more useful is recognizing which aspect of the economy is the principle, ie which has the real dominant power, over large firms and key industries. Socialism is when the public sector is the principle aspect, Capitalism is when private ownership is the principle aspect. That's why the PRC is Socialist, and the Nordic countries are Capitalist.

  2. Judging which system is correct purely by looking to which countries have the highest happiness scores is myopic. We could use the same logic to say that Jeff Bezos has the most comfortable life, so we should all copy him. The problem is that we can't. The Nordics fund their safety nets through Imperialism, ie super-exploiting the Global South, and because Private Ownership has domination over the state, worker protections and safety nets have been gradually sliding.

This is why having a good knowledge of theory and taking everything within a large context, rather than with harsh boundaries, is important to draw correct conclusions.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I'll never understand people who insist China is 'State Capitalism' but Nordic countries are ideal socialism, somehow.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago

I'll give you a hint: it's about race.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

There are a few different reasons that give rise to these (false) conclusions, and different reasons manifest in different degrees. Ie, not everyone will have all of these reasons, but most have at least one.

  1. Chauvanism. Intentionally or not, there is often a superstructural element to western thought derived from being a beneficiary of Imperialism that discredits the achievements of non-Western Leftists. The fact that a western revolution has failed to materialize leads to some westerners being defensive and thus discrediting the achievements of the PRC.

  2. A lack of real analysis at what the PRC is economically structured as. It's easy to not understand the makeup of the PRC's economy if you don't engage with it.

  3. A lack of reading Marxist theory, and thus not being able to properly analyze structures from a Dialectical Materialist perspective.

In my opinion, those are the main 3 reasons for such conclusions.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago (11 children)

Nordic nations have the blueprint.

They may be doing certain things right but do other totally wrong like forced conscription. Keep also in mind that they exploit third world countries like everyone else, their goods are made in china.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

The flaw is humans; we'll corrupt any system.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I would say it's the dominant western neoliberal culture that accepts corruption as an "Oh well what can you do" type thing. Not all cultures are so accepting of corruption. We need to start treating corruption as great of a sin as murder or pedophilia, perhaps more so.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

But the orphan grinding machine has always been around! We can't just tear it down, that's insulting to all the people it ground up!

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (7 children)

Pathetic how most commenters are arguing why communism is bad and not why capitalism is bad, when you live literally in late stage capitalism / fascism.

Every horrific thing happening under capitalism / fascism never seems to matter.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago

A good way to view fascism is as Capitalism donning its alter-ego to protect its image while it resorts to brutal means to protect itself. It's Capitalism in different circumstances, not a unique economic system, which is why its riddled with contradictory mechanisms. Its always there as a tool for Capitalism to employ, it's Capitalism in decay.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago (3 children)

The USSR was the prime example for what happens when communism fails. The USA is the prime example of what happens when capitalism fails. Many of their mistakes are mirror images of each other.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's almost like picking one extreme or the other isn't always the best idea

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

I don't think we can call all of the Soviet Union a failure. There were many problems and struggles faced by it, but many of these problems are ones that other AES states have learned from as a lesson, while keeping some of what made it such a progressive movement for the working class to begin with. Free, high quality healthcare, education, and childcare, democratization of the economy and not just government, dramatic reductions in wealth inequality and improvements in production, all showed some of the major benefits of a centrally planned and worker-focused economy.

Of course, it did collapse. It had numerous issues, especially later on as liberal reforms worked against the centrally planned economy. Planning was by hand in an increasingly computerized world, the millitary expenses from the Cold War siphoned resources, the economy was more publicly owned than necessary (Marx believed you need to develop out of private property relations, ie the NEP should have been reintroduced after World War II when Heavy Industry had been developed enough to tackle it), and more.

Overall, we can't simply dismiss it outright, it serves as a very valuable lesson on both good and bad, and anyone building Socialism needs to study it rigorously.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago

There’s a whole social psychology regarding perception management. If you want this idea to catch and snag more people, then substitute “the working class” for communism.

This also sets home the correct idea that we are in a class war right now. Most rules that don’t favor working class are intended to funnel more money up instead of to the people making the work happen.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago

It isn't the boogyman you need to worry about, it's the bougie man.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

Communism is when my uncle was killed for dissent. You want social democracy, not communism

The fact that this has 600+ upvotes is... major fucked up.

EDIT: the image is tagged "@proudSocialist". Any "proud socialist" would know that socialism and communism are not the same... Wow...

EDIT 2: If this gets more downvotes than upvotes I will gladly leave Lemmy. Have at it. :)

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago (2 children)

: If this gets more downvotes than upvotes I will gladly leave Lemmy. Have at it. :)

Please do, you'll be happier on reddit anyway

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (9 children)

All countries led by Communist parties have been Socialist, as Communism is a global system of a fully publicly owned economy. Socialism is when public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, while Capitalism is when private ownership is the principle aspect of the economy. Communism is a post-Socialist, global system of full public ownership, ie all "Communist" countries have considered themselves Socialist and building towards Communism.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

Every socialist/communist knows socialism is early stage communism.

We do not want social democracy, we want communism

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Y'all have brainwashed me over the last decade. I'm thankful TBH.

I used to be a staunch ancap libertarian and now I'm a hardcore socialist bordering on communist.

I mean, Trump's first term also had a lot to do with it. That was a shit show.

It's crazy how much a grown ass man can change deeply held beliefs when forced to re-evaluate reality.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Fucking labels. I have done the research on communism, socialism, capitalism, authoritarianism, Buddhism, taoism, etc.

Not a single real life person I've ever interacted with matches up with these labels. My personal experience with tankies (another label I don't get besides being in specific dumb instances) almost messes with that but nah.

I decided that I'm a member of one place.

Humanity.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago

Capitalism is definitely garbage.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

Most Marxists follow certain tendencies, ie Marxism-Leninism, Maoism, Trotskyism, etc. These tendencies arise from believing certain aspects to be relative to local conditions, or universal, such as the concept of Protracted People's War. Communists in general will agree within tendencies because if you agree with certain foundations, then there are "correct" and "incorrect" conclusions.

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