Thanks for sharing this. Patriarchy damages men, they're expected to hide their feelings, "man up" and crush emotions inside. It really hurts men and it's totally wrong
this post was submitted on 02 Jun 2025
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A male friend of mine who confides in me was complaining to me about how there are these 'feminists' talking about 'toxic masculinity.' Apparently he viewed some video where a guy was intentionally conflating masculinity with toxic masculinity. I didn't know that at the time, I was just shocked, because he's the biggest victim of toxic masculinity I know. When I said that, he asked me to explain, and I pointed to the fact that his father burned his sketchbooks (this was the 70s) because art is "for girls." Which is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
When I explained that toxic masculinity is that, the emphasis to conform to some harmful version of masculinity, he turned on a dime so fast in rage at the asshole who conflated the two.
The thing that hurts my feelings most is when men are taught to forward toxic masculinity that harms them. When they're forged into links in a chain that they would never wield if they knew better.
It sure is sad.
I got to say what grinds my gears more than it should is that some people in their fight against mysogyny and patriarchy are really mindless in their wording. Just today when i browsed reddit (my bad i know) i came across a thread that rightfully was upset about bigoted gay men and someone wrote "being gay does not stop some men from being... you know men. Toxic and Misogynistic." And i just felt getting upset and was wondering if it is really so hard to write "Some men, even when gay, still are toxic and mysogonistic", which is probably what they wanted to say anyways. I think that this can push away some men that already feel dismissed or are struggling.
I completely agree! Words have power!
If I see that sort of thing, I try and correct it. Gently. It never feels good when you get hit with a generalization meant for someone else, but especially when you dislike that generalization, too.
I still argue, especially when my ADHD meds wear off, and my impulse control goes out the window, but we can all at least try to be better to one another.
I'm always surprised to see people defending that kind of language, I've generally got a positive response explaining why it's hurtful, but why try to divide us? I hate that women have to deal with these weirdos too, why am I being grouped with them when I'm only trying to help?
Because feminism is the movement for women. It's literally in the name. But feminism isn't a concrete philosophy - it is a "big tent" of ideas. It's a vibe. Anything can be feminism as long as it feels like feminism. And what feels like feminism? Whatever the people who make up feminists think - ie, whatever women think.
Feminism, as a movement, is a tribe. It is vast and diverse in its members and philosophies, but all identify as feminists. And the golden rule of all tribes is that you must support your compatriots in the face of outsiders. So while some feminists may find the above statement distasteful, and more may believe there is more nuance to be had, few will out and out condemn it on a public forum where non-feminists are included in the discussion. And there are always a few who will defend it as "just venting" or "according to statistics..."
The "all men are trash" narrative is quite common among women. In particular, among women who are experiencing frustration or pain from men. Some of this pain is very real and traumatic. Some of it is run of the mill breakup drama. And most women, at some point in their lives, have probably thought "all men are trash", because they were feeling down or hurt or frustrated. And thus, the narrative is quite common/empathetic to most feminists. As a "big tent" and a "safe space to vent", it is therefore allowed as a legitimate feminist narrative, even if it violates most rational feminist philosophy about egalitarianism.
I think this is a real good explanation, thanks. I hope it will help me to cope when i next time come across a bad generalization. Tbh i shouldn't even feel bad but my sister is also doing this and gets very upset when i point it out.
I mean, I wouldn't cope so much as change your beliefs and behaviors. These generalizations are wrong and bad (at least from my perspective) and should be challenged when you encounter them.
Feminism is many things, but it is not the singular manifestation of objective goodness. It is just an amorphous collection of people who share the same identity. There is nothing wrong with this, and this amorphous blob has done a lot of good in the world, but it doesn't mean that the blob is beyond critique. So when it deserves critique, critique it.
Also, if you are a man and self identify as a feminist... I would reevaluate and stop identifying as a feminist. There are whole feminist truisms about how men/straights/white people/cis people need to shut up and listen. Certainly there is a lot to be learned from listening. But at the same time, the shut up part is telling - the reality is, as a man, you will always be a second class citizen in feminist circles. Your opinions will always carry less weight. You will always be seen as less trustworthy or less competent. You will be excluded from gatherings, conversations, and inner circles because of something you cannot change about yourself. Since feminism is the women's movement, we can understand why this would be the case much of the time. But simultaneously, it is difficult to square this with having a positive self-image. Do you really want to identify with a group where your contributions always have less worth, and where you will never be a member in full standing?
Saying you don't identify as a feminist is like saying you don't identify as a tennis player. Sure, you play tennis occasionally for fun, but you aren't going to make tennis the most important thing in your life. Sometimes you won't get invited to the parties the real tennis players go to, and that is okay, because playing tennis is not a significant part of your identity. For others, it is, and that is okay too. And you shouldn't feel bad if the people at the tennis parties say you don't play enough tennis - those people are just dicks.
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Art is for girls?? As if art isn't one of the fundamental parts of being human? As if women haven't been barred from art schools and ateliers for thousands of years?
I cannot describe to you my reaction when he told me that story. It's been 10 years and I'm still stunned.
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FYI "patriarchy" is a gendered term which comes from the Latin, originally meaning "church government by patriarchs" (1560s) and later evolved to mean "society or government by elder males" (1630s). Historically, it referred to autocratic rule by men. More recently it has been expanded in feminist theory which broadly ascribes a set of toxic behaviours to men as a group. The problem with this word is that men don't have a patent on toxic behaviour. It's often not men telling other men not to cry and to man up, for example. It's often the women in our lives, and especially our romantic partners. Raising "patriarchy" in this discussion is tantamount to blaming men for the issues they experience, and this is not helpful to anyone. No more than suggesting rape victims are also victims of the "matriarchy." If you understand how offensive that might seem to you, you might understand how offensive your comment can be to men.
FYI,
Patriarchy is a social system in which positions of authority are primarily held by men.
[...] Historically, patriarchy has manifested itself in the social, legal, political, religious, and economic organization of a range of different cultures. Most contemporary societies are, in practice, patriarchal, unless the criteria of complete exclusion of women in authority is applied.
Partiarchy is not a description of masculinity, toxic or otherwise. Patriarchy is a description of a social heirarchy.
Patriarchy is in large part to blame for toxic masculinity because historically and currently, men with power enforced social rule by men, and therefore enforced social elevation by their own subjective idea of what masculinity should be.
Patriarchy is not much different from (and intrinsically linked to) the idea of a King's divine right to rule - if you were in power, you deserved to be in power, and the qualities of the people in power were therefore the qualities of the people who deserved to be in power. Thus, their ideas of masculinity became long-lasting cultural norms.
Pointing out that the history of patriarchy enforced toxic masculinity is not accusing men themselves of enforcing it on an individual level, or dismissing rhe role that women played in enforcing these gender divisions.
The same can be said for pointing out that the history of Feudalism enforced horrrible class stratification that still impacts Western culture today. Modern day Knights like the late Sir Terry Pratchett and Sir Elton John would agree with that, because individuals can be distanced from and even directly challenge a system that they benefit from, much like men have a moral right and responsibility to challenge the role that the Patriarchy has played in enforcing these outdated gender divisions.
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One of the best things I did to change my life for the better was to stop caring about what other's think. You can basically laugh off any criticism and the people who will seriously be mean to you about something are not people to keep in your life.
When I go to a bar, I do not need to order a bitter IPA, I'll get whatever sweet cocktail I want. If someone calls me out for it not being manly, I just tell them the manliest thing is doing whatever the hell you want. I've never had someone say something to me like that and be serious about it, but whenever a hear that joke, my response always shuts them up.
Just do whatever you want and stop worrying about others. If people reject you, then get new people.
I have been all of these things at some point in the last 15 years.
Sending out love to all my brothers. Hang in there, things will get better. Even if they get waaaaaaay worse beforehand, which usually happens when you expect it the least.
Just try to stay strong, keep on going and don't you dare go hollow.
If anyone needs to talk about their problem 1v1, just send me a DM. I'd be happy to talk to you. I'm white, male, and in my 30s if that makes a difference.
This is the way. Supportive, contributing to community and generally helpful. β€οΈ
I think the ever growing machismo bullshit in America has subconsciously made me a different (better) person out of spite. I grew my hair super long again, and embrace liking kawaii and other cute and chill cultures, despite being a straight cis white male that wears mostly black and listens to metal.
Same, but with fascists/far-right wingers and their fashion. I'm shaving my head and dressing punkier because I hate this old-money vibe so many are trying to get. Sorry, no, rebellious leftists (and not billionaires) are my inspiration.
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I daily sent my partner a message like that. He has a 5/6 bleu hart score btw.
This has literally been my entire life since before 2nd grade. Yay for medication and therapy.
Men's health month being identical with gay pride month seems rather unfortunate.
It only seems unfortunate because of toxic issues and misunderstandings.
In reality, the goals of the two groups are completely aligned. Mental health, acceptance, being treated fairly, and just wanting to be happy and free. A lot of pride is essentially modern feminism, which also encompasses men's rights in good, healthy ways that are ACTUALLY good for men.
As a flaming neurodivergent queer, I can tell you, that pride and men's health have so many goals in common, that the Venn Diagram is basically just a single circle.
We can absolutely share.
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it's just pride month; you don't have to be gay to be queer!
How is it unfortunate?
I'm specifying "gay" because neonazis are trying to coopt it as white pride month. While I agree that queer would be more general, many people don't like that term and while I've never seen "queer pride" mentioned, I did see "gay pride".
Both men's health (especially men's mental health) and LGBTQ rights are huge, important and frequently neglected topics, and IMO using the same month diminishes both (especially since there is considerable overlap, which would be fine if we didn't suck so much as a society when it comes to these topics). Though I suppose there's only so many months in a year so it's inevitably going to get crowded if you want to dedicate entire months to topics.
if you refer to it as 'gay pride month' you are leaving behind the many queer people who celebrate pride and aren't gay. Most folks just call it pride now to be inclusive.
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We don't need to change everything we say just because neonazis try to take it. That's literally letting them succeed in coopting the month and the term.
It's just Pride Month, and nazis can get fucked.
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There's only 12 months in the year. If every issue is going to have a month, there's going to be some overlap.
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It's due to Father's Day and started as the week leading up to Father's Day.
It's annoying to have to wonder whether whoever started men's health month did it just to be all "but what about this other issue?" and intentionally move attention away from pride. Issues of men's rights and health are extremely important to me, and I hate how often they're brought up in bad faith by misogynists and other hateful people.
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I scrolled past this at first, then went back and man, it brought a smile to my face. I'm going through a stressful time in school (since the education system is ass, especially for neurodivergent students) and this gave me a bunch of hope.
And I gotta say, lots of our feeds are packed with depressing news stories and Lemmy infighting, but where's the feel good content? I've only seen a few of them so far.
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Im all these things except the therapy one
Dude here. The therapy one can really help, especially when you find the therapist who's right for you. It doesn't fix everything of course but it can set you down a road where your situation starts improving. It took me a long long time to try it but I'm so glad I've got one now.
You should do the therapy one. It is kind of fun once you realize that you can basically just say whatever the hell you want and won't be judged or interact with the person socially. You also can be assured that it is kept secret (with a few serious exceptions) by law.
It is kind of freeing to just open up about the hardest things to talk about with anyone else.
I'm in a pretty good place mentally, but I still check in with my psych every couple months. Usually just to vent about stuff that I do not want to discuss with people I interact with socially.
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2 out of 6 ain't bad
6/6. Nice knowing there's a men's day, no a whole month lol.
It is a whole month. The bottom of the image says month. It's celebrated June/this month.
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