I appreciate what he did. I hate that he is in Russia.
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Reminder that the reason is in Russia is because the US trapped him there, that was not his intended destination. The US was leveraging every country they could to prevent Snowden flying anywhere. They ended up cancelling his passport while he was on a flight from Hong Kong to Moscow in transit to a final destination somewhere in Latin America.
So he ended up being stuck in the international terminal in Moscow and not able to even leave the airport since he had no valid passport. Russia and the US do not have an extradition agreement, and the US has always refused to send criminals back to Russia, so they did the same, also citing that his actions would not have even violated Russian law. Eventually over a month later they processed a temporary one year asylum request since he was stuck in Russia anyway. And that was extended until he was granted permanent residency in 2020.
In short the only reason he ended up in Russia is because the US trapped him there.
I’ve seen what Russia does to American citizens they detain (atheletes, reporters, teachers, etc.).
It’s telling that Edward Snowden, a former CIA agent, would not get the same or worse treatment in Russia.
Is it really? Seems like a simple case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
I find it hard to believe that Russia is just being nice to Snowden. Snowden was a former CIA agent. There are many examples of double agents in espionage throughout history, let alone between Russia and the US.
If Snowden isn’t working for Russia then you can guarentee Russia would be torturing him for any information he has. Which they don’t show any signs of doing.
Why on earth would they do that, when he has already published all the information he had?
How do you know he published all the information he has? There is no way of knowing that.
Even if it was, Russia has shown time and time again that they torture the people they detain even when there isn’t intel to be gained. They aren’t doing that to Snowden though.
This is the same nonsense Fox News pundits were pushing at the time. There is no evidence that he took anything other than the documents he shared with the Guardian. Wildly speculating that he's sharing state secrets, which we have no evidence he has, with Russia, a country he never intended to visit beyond a layover, is an extraordinary claim and requires extraordinary evidence. "He's not being tortured," is not extraordinary evidence.
I never said he took more documents.
He was a CIA agent. That means he has information other than documents that could be of use to Russia.
You are bending over backwards to handwave the most logical answer: Snowden was/is working for Russia
He was a CIA agent. That means he has information other than documents that could be of use to Russia.
He was entry-level cybersecurity officer for the CIA. You make it sound like he was James Bond, but he was closer to an IT professional. And the information he shared with the Gaurdian was from his time at the NSA, not the CIA.
You are bending over backwards to handwave the most logical answer: Snowden was/is working for Russia
Let's walk through your, "most logical," answer. Snowden was a Russian agent. Instead of maintaining his position with the NSA so he could continue to feed Russia national security secrets, he decided the best thing to do was to blow up his cover by sharing his knowledge of the U.S.'s mass surveillance program, not with Russia, but with journalists. Once he had thoroughly and publicly destroyed his career, he traveled to Russia to share additional classified materials and/or information, and his passport was coincidentally canceled en route.
That's the simplest explanation to you? Because to me, the simplest explanation is that he was a whistle-blower, and the Obama administration decided it would be better to strand him in a hostile, authoritarian country rather than allow him to reach his intended destination.
To be fair to him, he's been in Russia since like 2013 which was before all the Ukraine stuff really started to blow up. And from a practical point of view, he's probably much safer there than he would be in any US friendly country.
It's unfortunate that his actions in the interests of raising awareness of mass surveillance to the US public were also in the interests of the Russian state, which will be all to happy to see the US government undermined in some way.
Nonetheless, I think he done the right thing.
After Georgia "stuff" blew up though. And everything before that. And let's be real, you could see who would be their head today even back in 2013.
He deserved better.
I suspect he is in the equivalent of house arrest now, whether officially or otherwise. A pet.
I hate that he is in Russia.
Why
Russia uses his presence as a propaganda point. It also give Americans the ability to paint him as an actual traitor (by fleeing to an enemy country).
Wish he had vanished into the Canadian wilderness or something instead.
I am from Russia myself. I don't live there because I am concerned about my safety. And I unironically think it's the safest place for him for now.
Also Russian propaganda isn't based in reality, so it's a weak point
You’re foolish if you think Canada wouldn’t have handed him over in a moment or allowed American forces into said wilderness to track him
Hence why they mentioned vanishing into the wilderness.
Yeah okay. I’m sure the American government with all its resources would have sooooo much trouble finding a fucking dorky tech nerd that decided to play survivalist
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Frein
Eric Frein was an actual ass survivalist here in PA who shot two cops trying to start some kind of revolution to overthrow the government and disappeared into the PA wilderness. Because he killed 2 cops they went hard, state police from multiple states (they were paying crazy amounts of OT), atf, FBI, and, us marshals. They caught him in a month and half. This was a libertarian “I do war reenactments and live in woods for fun sometimes” person so for a while it really looked like he would successfully dip, especially given the time of year was not super conducive to tracking as it was raining a lot. He specifically knew how to avoid being tracked as well using stuff like rivers to his advantage and there were even several times where the cops saw him and he was able to dip because of terrain advantage
Now you really think some nerd who has not LARPed as a survivalist mercenary for the past 15 years and has the aggression of the entire federal government, not just one state, would be able to successfully shake them off? No fucking way. You’re public enemy #1. That’s some delusional thinking shit inspired by fucking Rambo or something. You’ll have 5,000+ people after you with serious equipment advantage, they’ll spend 10s of millions, if not way more (pa spent 12 million to catch Frein)
Enemy country
He is not in Ukraine
So clever, dude.
Seriously?
Come on, man.
No, no, fuck Putin's Russia. But also fuck Guantanamo, it's worse
A common critique of China and Russia is mass surveillance of their citizens and this is true, China through more in depth social registration and facial recognition, Russia through sorm and isp data retention, etc.
The difference is that Snowden revealed America does much of the same but without any transparency. His leaks forced some - PRISM, XKEYSCORE, MUSCULAR, STELLARWIND, etc are now public knowledge and have congressional oversight. But a lot has changed in the past 12 years. Modern AI was essentially nonexistent during his leaks. His leaks did not cover any military or CIA programs. By his own and the governments admission information was highly compartmentalized for security so he potentially only knew a small chunk of what was happening at the time.
Since then there have been a number of tools and things acknowledged but not expanded upon that are used by the government, such as the cia vault 7 tools disclosed by Wikileaks in 2017 (malware for many things, smart TVs, ios and android, cars, many web browsers, etc). To further complicate things a lot of government surveillance in the us happens outside of the government thanks to our military contracting system. Actors such as booz allen, amazon govcloud, and palantir maintain databases so they bypass FISA requirements.
This is finally becoming more concrete with trumps ICE raids as we begin to see leaks that show ICE, DHS, FBI, and local police departments are relying on palantir databases of American citizens for profiling and arrests. These databases did not appear overnight. They were built over a long time and indicate our government clearly has an issue both with spying on its own citizens and being transparent about it.
In the modern age it is clear that we are going to be tracked. We need to demand transparency and regulation surrounding this. We also need to demand fair treatment for federal whistleblowers, especially related to the military as these often get exempted from whistleblowing protections and charged as espionage. Snowden still lives in exile and is facing 30 years, reality winner got the harshest espionage sentence in history for leaking memos about russian hacking in the 2016 election (by the trump admin, which seems unfair), Chelsea manning got 35 years (which was commuted by Obama), Daniel hale got 45 months, etc.
There is no such thing as privacy or security anymore.
I think it's hilarious that he sacrificed his life to reveal US secrets because he couldn't stomach the idea of widespread domestic spying.
But then in Russia suddenly he cares about his safety again, and he's repeating their propaganda... helping others to get bombed.
But nah, he's American and the people being terrorized by Russia are foreigners. Makes sense he doesn't care and only risks his life for very specific things related to American intelligence.
Cant forget about the OG Thomas A Drake who blew the whistle years before Snowden
I got his book as an audiobook. was pretty good
Can he tell us the meaning of life, now that he's 42?
It's all so tiresome, the machine controls you no matter what; any collective effort is futile when everyone is divided. There government runs mass surveillance programs on its on citizens and you're powerless against it; there are people living in hell and there is nothing you can do about it — whose crimes are they paying for? It's to divide, always to divide.