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Can’t wait to see it, looks great!
Great. ST continues its descent into gritty realism that betrays Roddenberry's vision.
"If you're going to do a show about a young generation facing the future and you want it, as all Star Trek does, to be a mirror that holds itself up to the world as it is now, to situate the show in the halcyon days of the Federation would, in some ways, be dishonest,"
Bull Fucking shit. TOS was at the height of the cold war. People were still building fallout shelters.
Our children are facing a lot of challenges right now and they are our hope for the future
So give them a show about hope, about how things could be better, how we could be better, not the same shit they could get by turning on the news.
Hard pass. Lower Decks was the one bright spot in the current franchise.
ST continues its descent into gritty realism that betrays Roddenberry's vision.
As long as Alex "Light can only exist with shadow" Kurtzman is in charge, that will keep happening.
So give them a show about hope, about how things could be better, how we could be better, not the same shit they could get by turning on the news.
In absolute contrast to Roddenberry, Kurtzman doesn't think a good society can exist without people doing bad things behind the scenes.
Is that where Section 31 comes from? Kurtzman?
The movie, yes. The organization, no. But in older Star Trek they were just evil.
It came from Ira Steven Behr originally.
And like with many of these things regarding DS9 let's not bring up that other space station show that had something similar, but earlier.
Constantinople 7?
We don’t talk about Section 31.
Great. ST continues its descent into gritty realism that betrays Roddenberry’s vision.
That descent was around during TNG and DS9. I haven't seen enough NuTrek to judge, but I was really disillusioned with The Pegasus and For The Uniform.
Also, while I haven't properly seen TOS, it feels more schlocky "Flash gordon"esque with a bit of moral story thrown in than how picard was in the middle seasons of TNG.
TNG did start getting gritty, and DS9 was really dark. I think DS9 was really just a ST re-imagining of Bab5, with a lot of current-event context for plot. I can -- personally -- accept some of that; it doesn't have to be all rainbows and unicorns, but when it becomes canon that Star Fleet is fundamentally corrupt, and that the Federation isn't a more enlightened organization of planets and that it's not possible to have a functioning, effective, benevolent ~~UN~~ UFP... that is depressing. It's not a future worth fighting for; it's just today, with high tech. Human society can't advance, can't progress, can't improve. TNG -- even with the dark edges -- was fundamentally a step forward, even past TOS, which was (as my friend puts it) "the US Navy... in spaaaace". TOS was set in an interstitial period, where the Federation was still growing. Hell, it was the theme of an entire movie, with Kirk as the "old school hawk, who learns to forgive." Picard's command was far more pacifist than Kirk's, and I think they were generally supposed to be representative. TOS is getting there, TNG had almost gotten there, and then everything after just falls apart and it turns out peace doesn't work, and it's only because the ~~CIA~~ Section 31 is assasinating enemies of state that there's any stability.
I have a really hard time reconciling Section 31 with the Vulcan philosophy TOS's Spock came to represent as the series progressed.
TOS was schlocky. I just finished binging season 1 again, and maybe the biggest take-away from this time was that the show could have been titled "Time Trek." So. Much. Time travel -- virtual, real, and essentially. But I saw someone made a meme about Kirk's overacting and my first thought was, "it's amazing what you have to do to make TV interesting when you don't have CGI." ST TOS episodes were an hour long. I read that one story about why Jeffrey Hunter was replaced was because, at the time, TV was basically broadcast theater, and Hunter thought it was beneath him; he wanted to be a movie star. Everything was schlocky, because there was no CGI and all of the actors were theater actors. That's just how TV was in the 60's, especially if it was fantasy (or sci-fi). The actors were doing heavy lifting with the limited FX available.
Great, well written, thoughtful reply. Thank you.
Thanks for the platform. This last watch-through was different; I hasn't binged an entire season before, and I came away with a lot of thoughts; your comment uncorked the bottle.
I think DS9 was really just a ST re-imagining of Bab5
Babylon 5 premiered a month after DS9.
But there's speculation that someone pitched B5 to the network, and they ultimately tweaked it into DS9.
Ngl having Voyager as one of the core ST series of my adolescence, I’m pretty curious about the direction in which they’ve taken The Doctor over the 5-600 intervening in-universe years
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My worry is the tone of teaching. If they teach these cadets like real adults and present real life struggles and decision making, I’m going to be super pumped. Also the casting….. damn nice picks, I’m excited.
this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2025
44 points (100.0% liked)
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