this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2023
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submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by NEWS@lemmy.world to c/news@beehaw.org
 

Reddit has stopped working for millions of users around the world.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/reddit-down-subreddits-protest-not-working-b2356013.html


The mass outage comes amid a major boycott from thousands of the site’s administrators, who are protessting new changes to the platform.

On 12 June, popular sub-Reddits like r/videos and r/bestof went dark in retaliation to proposed API (Application Programming Interface) charges for third-party app developers.

Among the apps impacted by the new pricing is popular iOS app Apollo, which announced last week that it was unable to afford the new costs and would be shutting down.

Apollo CEO Christian Selig claimed that Reddit would charge up to $20 million per year in order to operate, prompting the mass protest from Reddit communities.

In a Q&A session on Reddit on Friday, the site’s CEO Steve Huffman defended the new pricing.

“Some apps such as Apollo, Reddit is Fun, and Sync have decided this pricing doesn’t work for their businesses and will close before pricing goes into effect,” said Mr Huffman, who goes by the Reddit username u/spez.

“For the other apps, we will continue talking. We acknowledge that the timeline we gave was tight; we are happy to engage with folks who want to work with us.”

In response to the latest outage, one Reddit user wrote on Twitter: “Spez, YOU broke Reddit.”

Website health monitor DownDetector registered more than 7,000 outage reports for Reddit on Monday.

Some users were greeted with the message: “Something went wrong. Just don’t panic.”

Others received an error warning that stated: “Our CDN [content delivery network] was unable to reach our servers.”


Update: Seems to be resolved for most users

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[–] Scribbd@feddit.nl 67 points 2 years ago

Best thing I read so far about this:

The official Reddit API goes dark in solidarity with current protests.

[–] Clbull@beehaw.org 50 points 2 years ago (8 children)

Beehaw is getting hammered with traffic and is really slow today. I wonder if there's been a mass exodus to Lemmy...

[–] ManMade91@midwest.social 38 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I just joined lemmy today. I like it so far. A little rough around the edges, but seems to have potential.

[–] araquen@beehaw.org 34 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Think of the “Lemmyverse” as the ground floor in relation to your Reddit experiences. Like a new MMO when comparing with the maturity of WoW. Some things will feel a little awkward for not having the polish, but there are other mechanics that are new and engaging. The more people who engage on Lemmy, Beehaw, et. al., and the longer the engagement, the better the experience will get. I think of it more like a diamond in the rough, instead of it being a “lesser” version of Reddit.

The difference here is that your investment (of your time) can’t be undercut by a greedy CEO. A fediverse is “self healing.” It’s like setting up a mesh - one node could go bad but the network itself will survive.

[–] Manticore@beehaw.org 24 points 2 years ago (12 children)

This is why I'm hoping Lemmy can resist against some of the Reddit-specific culture that I think would dampen the experience here. Animosity towards emojis, creating echo-chamber communities/subreddits, the air of smug self-righteousness, discussion as something one can 'win' etc.

Redditors in general aren't bad, but a lot of vocal users had it in their heads that they were somehow better than people who used other platforms, and staked lines to maintain that cultural divide. Some of them concluded they were better than other redditors; turning communities into Us vs Them tribalism, until they would fracture into r/subreddit and r/truesubreddit.

Lemmy is not Reddit. It had a culture and it had users before the API shuffle; it's an opportunity to start fresh. It's not appropriate to expect Lemmy turn into Reddit, with all the unpleasantness that entails, and at the expense of the lemmings that were already here.

I'm quite honest about it; I spent years on Reddit too. I'm a redditor. But being here on Lemmy has been such a wonderful breath of fresh air, the 'I disagree but I'll respectfully explain why' that Reddit was missing for years. I can feel how miserable modern Reddit is in comparison and I really hope we don't recreate it.

[–] crank@beehaw.org 7 points 2 years ago (5 children)

until they would fracture into r/subreddit and r/truesubreddit.

You know, as a person who has never been in a "true" subreddit or a cj sub or a meme sub, I really do not mind those who wish to be so. They are doing their own thing. They have their own norms and expectations and that is where they go to be comfortable. So what?

And do you really think100% of those people literally only went to those subs and never contributed anywhere else? Nah, they were on the needlework sub posting their stitches or posting pictures of clouds or whatever.

We do not all have to be in one big group... I do not understand this fantasy. It is really OK to have different venues for different ideas and ways of being; that is one of the magics of online life in fact. It is possible to have little weird niches, even of smugness. One of the joys in life, which is dripping from the above comment and countless others I have been reading here. :D

[–] Manticore@beehaw.org 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Let me share with you what I'm thinking of when I talk about 'true' subs, as I understand it's a broad statement. I can offer a perspective that is more nuanced, if longer to read. I'll bold the key statements.

I understand that when subs get large enough, groupthink emerges; people voting up/down not based on whether a comment contributes meaningfully, but whether or not they agree or feel good about it. Thus even constructive minority voices are drowned out.

The reason the splintered subs could be a problem is that it often left the disruptive people to represent entire ideas, for better or for worse. It fractures movements that should otherwise have common goals into smaller and smaller slices that are unwilling to co-operate towards otherwise shared goals.

The one that comes to mind for me is r/childfree. It started out as a resource for those who'd chosen a child-free life to find support, collate a list of recommended doctors that recognised body autonomy (its often very difficult to get sterilised, especially if you're younger and/or don't already have several children), how the workforce treated them differently for being child-free (such as expecting them to cancel their plans and sacrifice their time off for parents on short notice), impact on their social lives, etc.'

However, over time it stopped being pro childfree lifestyle choices, and support for a group that is often seen as 'selfish'; and started becoming anti child lifestyle choices. The frontpage became mostly rants, filled with terms like 'crotchfruit', 'breeder', etc. What was once a community of a minority lifestyle trying to find support and legitimacy gave way to anger and tribalism.

Eventually enough of the users that consider choosing to have children to be an equally valid lifestyle choice - merely one they'd chosen not to live - slowly started lurking, unsubbing, or otherwise becoming invisible. Anti-child/'breeder' rhetoric became more and more prevalent. Eventually, r/truechildfree was founded to do what r/childfree used to - collate resources and support for those who have chosen a child-free life in a world where children are considered 'opt out'. Thus childfree users split into pro-child and anti-child tribes.

Which is lovely for r/truechildfree and its users (I am child-free, but I like children; I just recognise I am not equipped to raise them). But it meant that the largest and most visible sub, r/childfree, became almost only child-haters, and an already maligned community often considered 'selfish' is now represented by absolutists that are no longer willing to respect people who disagree.

I understand that it is the nature of humanity, once pushed, to push back. I understand why those who see mistreatment in the workplace or socially for their choice to be child free would be upset, same as anything we hold close to our hearts. That pain is why the r/childfree support group came to exist in the first place.

But it is diversity of opinion that makes discussion so interesting, that allows us opportunity for growth, that has us looking at the ways we are similar instead of fighting over the ways we are different.

I think the anger of those in the new r/childfree is real, valid, legitimate.
I think the users of r/truechildfree's discomfort with how that anger was displayed is also real, valid, legitimate.

I wish we'd looked for a better way to handle it than for letting communities devolve into absolutism, though. Whatever your reasons for not choosing to have children, you still deal with the same stigma; it's a shame to have people who are struggling against the same chains to schism over the metal they're made of.

[–] SterlingVapor@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (2 children)

What you're describing is polarization within a community transforming it into an echo chamber, driving out much of the community. Sure, truechildfree formed out of people who still wanted a community based around that aspect of themselves, but they're not the reason for the split - they're a symptom. For every user that made the journey to truechildfree, there's probably 3-10 that just unsubbed, and another 5 that just stopped participating

My personal example is AITA. It started off as a group judgement based on the morality of the situation, but in the last few years people have become obsessed with "rights". I actually got tempbanned for a situation where a douche told a woman that by joining trivia night in a small town bar she was ruining guys night. I responded to someone saying "IDK why your bf wasn't happy about how you handled it", and I basically said "yeah, he's the asshole, but clearly this is extremely important to him, and saying screw you I have every right to be here while he storms out didn't just ruin his night, it soured the evening for his friends who tried to stop him. That's not going to make you any friends in your new town, and a little compassion could've diffused the situation". It's hard to put into words (and that's just the most salient example, I probably got more negative karma there than everywhere else put together), but the community moved from what's the right thing to do into what's your legal rights

As far as I know, there's no trueAITA - the community just morphed into something I find toxic. The nuance was gone, and it became something very different to the sub I loved participating in. I almost unsubbed, but instead I mostly just would start writing a comment before deleting it and moving on.

I think fractured, smaller communities help with this more than anything. Humans generally adjust their morality based on their peers - and the bigger the community, the more the loudest voices begin to feel like they're expressing the opinion of the majority.

If 10% of a large community upvotes a certain viewpoint, it takes all of the top slots. It's a weakness of the popularity-based ranking system - a relatively small voting block easily dominates the discussion. The moderates just ignore it, because they disagree but not enough to actually fight it out

But force people together in a smaller, more diverse group, and they moderate each other. The trick is, you can't do it through polarization - you can't fragment a community based on beliefs or you get echo chambers.

You just have to throw people together and make them talk it out. Opinions naturally balance towards the mean when the groups are smaller, and the most cohesive voices dominate when the group becomes large

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[–] SaucyGoodness@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's a bit hard to subscribe to different instances if you're on a separate server etc. I hope it gets easier. Once you're subscribed though, it feels like reddit pretty much. Just hope the saints that post content start using Lemmy.

[–] araquen@beehaw.org 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yeah, it is a bit of a challenge. What I did was go to here: https://kbin.social/m/fediverse/t/4331 and find a community that I had as a subreddit. In the upper right corner, there is a blue dialog box and at the bottom there is an identifier. You copy that identifier, then go to your home server, go to search and paste that identifier. One of the search results should be that server, and you can then just hit “subscribe.”

It’s the same with Mastodon.

That said, if your server shows a listing of Communities, you might be able to subscribe from that list. Beehaw offers that.

[–] CaptainBlagbird@lemmy.one 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

It would be really useful if you could set your home instance and then have a direct link for adding/joining the communities that way. It's still quite annoying to do all manually.

Or that all (subscribed?) servers automatically be notified and thus updated when a new community is created on another server.

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[–] 1993_toyota_camry@beehaw.org 22 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Beehaw is getting hammered with traffic and is really slow today.

They've really turned it around over the past few hours though. Fast as hell now.

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[–] songblues99@lemmy.fmhy.ml 19 points 2 years ago (6 children)

I'll admit, I'm part of that exodus.

[–] Clbull@beehaw.org 9 points 2 years ago

Same. I joined just a few days ago. Well technically I made this account a month ago, but I didn't get the confirmation email so I thought my application wasn't accepted at first.

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[–] treebeard@beehaw.org 16 points 2 years ago

I've been watching the stats since the blackout announcement. According to the Lemmy page on the federation info stats site, Lemmy gained about 10,000 users just last night.

[–] Variden3301@lemm.ee 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Hello I am a reddit refugee. And I am happy to find open source alternatives to things I use. Thanks to all the devs here!!!

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[–] _haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 years ago

Hi, exodus person here.

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[–] CoachDom@lemmy.blahaj.zone 43 points 2 years ago (8 children)

It's such a shame - I used Reddit for many years and found so many helpful people that helped me with many things - fixing my motorbike, improving my 3D prints or saving my plants. I hope we can establish similar kind of community in the Fediverse.

I guess that's what we get for trusting too much in a company - decentralised open source software is way to go. Even if somebody in this particular instance will go fucking insane and will decide to raise it to the ground, whatever, the project lives on and you can just go somewhere else.

[–] WatTyler@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That's the thing this last week has made me realize: it's so unjust that the 'owners' of Reddit are completely unable to see that the only value they have is what the community provides. Their sense of entitlement, when it is us who are responsible for their $X hundred-million valuation is startling.

[–] mcc@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

No they see it, and I can see how they have to make money to support their operations. Lemmy will have similar problems and we will have to pitch in. Bu that's fine, let's talk and let's figure something out. You don't just shut the door and command people to pay up.

[–] WatTyler@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 2 years ago

That's the point I'm making. I would have been 100% behind justified pricing changes to maintain the site. But like you said, that's never what that was.

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[–] knighthawk0811@lemmy.one 30 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think the servers don't know what to do when ads outnumber content 36 to 1

[–] 666dollarfootlong@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

They celebrate, of course

[–] heartlessevil@lemmy.one 27 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

I'm curious about why the most popular subreddits going private would stress out their servers. Wouldn't that reduce load?

They might be getting DDoSed.

Another possibility is that many of the closed subreddits link to a single thread in Save3rdpartyapps for an explanation. That page was returning gateway timeouts over the last few days. Since it has tens of thousands of comments, the sorting algorithm might be timing out from people visiting that particular page.

[–] Tinawebmom@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

I know that even after my small (~26,000 users) went dark I STILL received a spam posting!

So dark means nothing to spam bots unfortunately

[–] spoonful@beehaw.org 7 points 2 years ago

Reddit folks came out saying that with so many private subreddits the server struggled to build the front page for people.

[–] Ropianos@feddit.de 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I would guess it's related to making all the content of the subs private. For large subs that would mean crawling millions of posts/comments.

[–] heartlessevil@lemmy.one 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

It doesn't need to update every individual link or comment, the "private" property is just on the subreddit itself. There is probably an index on the "private" property so filtering on that property is cheap.

Sources:

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[–] camelCaseGuy@lemmy.world 20 points 2 years ago

I'm still incredibly surprised that by taking closing communities you get your servers down. Usually it should be the other way around, but god dammit they screwed that infra somehow, somewhere.

[–] ghostalmedia@beehaw.org 18 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I wonder what is going to happen on Lemmy when we don't have reddit stories to rant about

[–] Garrathian@beehaw.org 10 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It'll normalize a bit and you'll start seeing more diverse content. Some will quit reddit cold turkey, some will do what i do and hop back and forth, some will just go back and deal. I like it here though so im sticking around at least

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[–] McBinary@midwest.social 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's gonna take a bit. Most are actually 'grieving' a loss right now, and just want to talk about it.

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[–] lowleveldata@programming.dev 18 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Can't have a black out if the site is not online points to temple

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[–] kickinitlegit@lemmy.one 14 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Makes me wonder if it's on purpose to hide the blackout...

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[–] SacredHeartAttack@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago

this is the "and find out" stage

[–] deo@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (4 children)

"What we had today wasn't a complete drop in traffic, engagement, and a resulting significant downturn in the number of served ads, caused by the major boycott we're in the middle of, guys, that was just a major outage. We still have great expectations for the IPO."

-- spez, probably

[–] Kalkaline@lemmy.one 8 points 2 years ago

How do you short a stock that isn't public yet? Asking for a friend.

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[–] MorksEgg@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago

Seems that the past couple of days some subreddits have been removing links that suggest migration to any alternatives such as Lemmy, Kbin and Mastadon. Hopefully the exodus continues!!!!

[–] fuser@quex.cc 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children)
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[–] Variden3301@lemm.ee 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I burned down Memes of the dank and I moved here. Best thing that I did

[–] nii236@lemmy.jtmn.dev 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The blackout is pretty dang short though, inconsequential I reckon

[–] MorksEgg@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Not all subreddits are following the 2 day blackout rule. Some have gone private indefinitely and others are going dark until they think matters are being addressed reasonably.

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[–] zombuey@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago

literally blocked reddit on adguard and moved here heh

[–] MrMcNamerica@beehaw.org 9 points 2 years ago

Lol and, I cannot stress this enough, lmao.

[–] flibbertigibbet@feddit.de 7 points 2 years ago

I would be hilarious if this were their shitty app ddosing their servers, because they drove all the subreddits away.

[–] terribleplan@lemmy.nrd.li 7 points 2 years ago (6 children)

I wonder if this is coincidental, or if some people are taking it upon themselves to DDoS them or something. I hope it is the former as that would be absolutely hilarious, and can't be used as further justification for their continuing BS.

[–] EvilColeslaw@beehaw.org 10 points 2 years ago (3 children)

So. One thing I've noticed is that privated subs on mobile return an error (403 forbidden). I can't help but wonder if they have a crush of mobile users hammering the API over and trying to refresh their favorite sub because they can't see the message explaining that it's been privated.

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