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330

Biden says he regrets referring to 'an illegal' and defends direct criticism of Supreme Court in State of the Union (www.nbcnews.com)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 139 points 1 year ago (4 children)

From the transcript of the speech:

REPRESENTATIVE GREENE: What about Laken Riley?

(Cross-talk.)

AUDIENCE: Booo —

REPRESENTATIVE GREENE: Say her name!

THE PRESIDENT: (The President holds up a pin reading “Say Her Name, Laken Riley.”) Lanken — Lanken (Laken) Riley, an innocent young woman who was killed.

REPRESENTATIVE GREENE: By an illegal!

THE PRESIDENT: By an illegal. That’s right. But how many of thousands of people are being killed by legals?

I don't see the problem. His response rightly points out that murders happen regardless of the perpetrators legal status.

[–] [email protected] 63 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

It's just how propaganda works.

At any given time, there are a few different anecdotal-type "talking points" that are the new thing everyone's talking about. You're going to be hearing about Biden saying "an illegal" for a little while, even though as your transcript notes, it wasn't even him that chose the wording. People form their picture of the world through these little gestalt-facts, and if you can pick one that will shape the narrative you want to present, and arrange for people to hear it over and over from a variety of sources, and do that in a constant stream that all points to the same types of conclusions, it actually does a pretty good job at controlling how they'll perceive the totality of the situation.

It's almost exactly the same as how you will hear over and over that:

We broke a record for fossil fuel extraction in 2023
Biden's climate bill includes giving money to oil and gas companies

... and then all this weight of emotion behind how bad Biden is for the climate, how he's just the same, how it's such a shame that I as a good climate-change person can't support him... etc etc. Because the little factoids are in fact accurate, and properly sized and shaped to stick in your brain, they count as "supporting evidence" for Biden being bad on the climate.

The reality is, the way to analyze Biden's performance on the climate is to ask what's the total content of the climate bill he got passed, and what impact it's expected to have. That's it. Just like the reality is that how he performs on immigration has nothing at all to do with whether he said "an illegal" in this specific context.

If you hear someone repeating one of these specific little factoids, or if you start to see one specific one that is commonly repeated, my advice is to become suspicious of the message on top of which it is being placed, like a little evidence-cherry.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean the effects of the climate bill in comparison to the scale of the problem are fairly modest. And the US continues to slow-walk real change at the international stage as well. It’s a fair criticism.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

That, what you said, is a completely fair statement. Let me expand on it. Here's a pretty solid summary of what was in the original bill. Here's what actually passed. They are both, sadly, fucking tragically, too little, and absolutely unforgivably late. But, blaming that aspect of it on Biden specifically, when he just got here and started immediately fighting to get something unprecedented in American climate action to start happening the instant he got in, seems unfair. As does shifting the conversation away from "how much is this gonna do" and towards "does this involve giving money to oil companies" or similar focus-grouped talking points, blaming him for not doing more, and saying he's just the same as the people who stopped him from doing it.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

>You're going to be hearing about Biden saying "an illegal" for a little while, even though as your transcript notes, it wasn't even him that chose the wording.

why isn't he accountable for the words that come out of his mouth?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dude just give it a rest. The transcript speaks for itself and you or me or any other person can just read it and form their conclusions. If you read it and your conclusions are some specific way, then of course you're welcome to that opinion.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

That dude you’re responding to is one of the biggest propagandists here. It’s laughable.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

mozz is a huge propagandist, everytime I see him it's almost defending Biden.

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Because there isn’t a problem. At least not with mentally stable people that understand things for what they are. The propagandists will try and use this as an excuse to beat you over the head with their “don’t vote to send a message!” rhetoric.

This is just more fuel for the anti-Biden propagandists. Nothing more.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He also said "Lincoln Riley" instead of Laken Riley so the transcript is wrong.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

So what.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I dislike Biden immeasurably less than Trump, and I plan to vote for him in November, yet:

“It is a red line," Biden said, adding, “but I’m never gonna leave Israel. The defense of Israel is still critical.”

That sounds to me like there is, in fact, not a red line.

Drawing a line without any consequences for crossing it is worse than not drawing a line at all (source: my pedagogy prof, many, many moons ago).

I realize that Biden did not, in fact, say that there were not going to be any consequences at all - but the other thing with lines is that the consequences need to be known in advance, and they need to be adhered to. From all I'm hearing in interviews, the US government seems very hesitant to commit to any consequences, and if the slaughter keeps going, it may save Netanyahu's political career, but seriously bite Biden in the tush come election day.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Didn't he say something about a 2 state solution being the eventual goal?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, he has been saying this. What is lacking is a plan to get there. Against the opposition of the current Israeli government.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

How does the American president develop a plan when one side is refusing to even say if the hostages are alive and acknowledge the existence of the other party?

It's so weird that people act like Hamas/Palestinians aren't required to be a part of the process..... when they're the ones who have turned down the deals Egypt and Qatar have brokered.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hamas is part of the process, they have attended the negotiations.

Fact is Israel is the one who keeps refusing to participate.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Israel won't negotiate until they get a list of names of living hostages. That's what's being negotiated, Hamas won't provide it. Blaming Israel because Hamas won't come to the table in any reasonable way is ridiculous.

The Qatar's have threatened to boot Hamas if they don't start negotiating in good faith is the news coming out lately. Blaming Israel for not negotiating over nothing is just stupid.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

He says a lot of things. He's supporting Netanyahu's genocide by selling him weapons and backing him up at the UN.

His support for a 2 state solution consists of words.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The two state solution here seems to be a border with Israel on one side and Egypt on the other.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is just willful ignorance at this point, the administration has been saying consistently since at least a month after October 7th, that a two state solution was the only answer to permanently solve the crisis.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Contrast what is being said with what is happening. Gazans are being pushed hard against that Egypt border. They are being starved and killed. Where does this end if US watches it continue?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

And yet they will do nothing to make it happen, just like every administration before them. At what point will you care that it's just lip service?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago

For as good as the SOTU address was, I agree that that one line where he used the term "illegal" came off very wrong when I heard it. I thought it was very out of character for him to use the same language that Republicans use to dehumanize people. I'm glad he at least recognizes that it was wrong.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ugh, the liberal handwringing over this term is how we make more Republicans. Is that term all that significant in contrast with what the policies will be? No.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

This article and, from the sounds of it, Biden's interview from yesterday both sound like a great refute to trump's putting down / making fun of Biden for "apologizing" for referring to the man as "an illegal".

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Correct. I'm pretty sure that "illegal" is just the short form of "illegal alien". And is that the accepted legal term for a foreign national who is in the US illegally, right?

Honestly, all of this language policing just turns the average person right off. I mean, I suppose it wouldn't be necessary if the Republicans weren't constantly sneering at people, but still. It is better to reclaim terms the Republicans abuse rather than try to language-police hundreds of millions of people. It is very, very off-putting.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, I get it, we should hold the president to higher standards and be more inclusive overall. All I'm saying is don't forget that Biden, much like all of us, are products of our environment, and that includes our time. At the end of the day he has been far more cognizant and considerate of the diversity in America than his predacesors and many others currently in government. Look no further than that house inquiry to TikTok and how that representative didn't know the difference between China and Singapore.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

From the quote in the article he seemed surprised it was an issue...

The statement marks an apparent reversal from what Biden said Friday. While at Joint Base Andrews in Maryland, the president was asked, “Do you regret using the word ‘illegal’ to describe immigrants last night, sir?”

“Well, I probably — I don’t re — technically not supposed to be here,” he responded.

Probably because he's been hanging out with republicans again.

The Democrats told Biden that he needed to show more of the fire that was on display in a closed-door meeting with governors when Montana Gov. Greg Gianforte handed him a letter demanding more action on the southern border. Biden flashed a smile, according to two of the governors standing there.

"State of the Union,” Biden said, teasingly.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/07/politics/joe-biden-state-of-the-union/index.html

Dude is 81 fucking years old, and all it takes is five minutes of face time with a Republican till he thinks he's back in "the good old days" with Strom Thurmond and Mitch McConnell

He planned this stupid shit and legitimately thought it was a good move.

He's completely out of touch with Dem voters

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's hilarious to me that while he was Obama's VP, and even up to a few months ago I was saying Biden is as far right as you can get in a democrat, and that he's filthy with the blood of the drug war. And everyone would downvote me and defend Biden, now here we are.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Corn Pop was ~~a bad dude an illegal~~ a bad dude

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Props to all the liberals who blindly defend him saying it and then being racist on twitter lol. That class of people who just exist to boot-lick people in power are something else.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You will vote for Trump, won't you?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

How did you gather that from Liberals defending bad actions? Sorry If I don't want to hang around the people claiming to be allies for POC then going on about how Biden is right to call them Illegals. The shoe must fit for some of you guys.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Every word uttered by a conservative is deception or manipulation. Every word.

There is no "good conservative" alive today.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Centrists don't like it when people criticize their attempts to get the bigot vote back into the Democratic party.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I really dislike the newspeak about "undocumented immigrants" vs "illegal immigrants". The problem isn't that they don't have documents. The problem is that they entered the country illegally.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (23 children)

Yes, they committed a misdemeanor. So when you jaywalk you’re an illegal pedestrian, and when you do a rolling stop at a stop sign you’re an illegal driver.

So what kinds of illegal are you? I’d assume at the very least an illegal pedestrian, likely also an illegal driver. Are you by chance an illegal shopper as well?

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