this post was submitted on 22 Mar 2024
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    Though the Windows thing was really funny πŸ˜‚.

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    [–] bort@sopuli.xyz 93 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    the linux-file-deletion is used as a example for good software design. It has a very simple interface with little room for error while doing exactly what the caller intended.

    In John Ousterhout's "software design philosophy" a chapter is called "define errors out of existence". In windows "delete" is defined as "the file is gone from the HDD". So it must wait for all processes to release that file. In Linux "unlink" is defined as "the file can't be accessed anymore". So the file is gone from the filesystem immediately and existing file-handles from other processes will life on.

    The trade-off here is: "more errors for the caller of delete" vs "more errors due to filehandles to dead files". And as it turns out, the former creates issues for both developers and for users, while the later creates virtually no errors in practice.

    [–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 116 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    doing exactly what the caller intended.

    No, no. Exactly what the user told it to do. Not what they intended. There's a difference.

    [–] hstde@feddit.de 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    Exactly type rm -rf / instead of rm -rf ./ and you ducked up. Well you messed up a long time ago by having privileges to delete everything, but then again, you are human, some mistakes will be made.

    [–] taladar@sh.itjust.works 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Deleting the current directory via ./ seems contrived since you would just use . or more likely the directory name from outside the directory. What does happen is rm -rf ${FOO}/ while ${FOO} is an empty string.

    [–] qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website 19 points 1 year ago

    Not sure if you're referencing the Steam incident, but Steam did exactly that: https://www.theregister.com/2015/01/17/scary_code_of_the_week_steam_cleans_linux_pcs/

    [–] NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Even so, . and / are right next to each other so it's a likely typo. You might press enter before you catch it.

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    [–] lurker2718@lemmings.world 7 points 1 year ago

    Yes, the file itself (so the data and inode) is not gone as long as the handles live on. Only the reference is gone. You canstill recover the file. https://superuser.com/questions/283102/how-to-recover-deleted-file-if-it-is-still-opened-by-some-process#600743

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    [–] RealFknNito@lemmy.world 58 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I like the windows delete philosophy of asking me before I delete something.

    I fucking hate the windows delete philosophy of telling me I don't have access after I said yes.

    I'm this close to daily driving as Sadmin

    [–] Agility0971@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

    Better would be to delete without confirmation but being able to quickly reverse it with Ctrl+Z

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    [–] Koof_on_the_Roof@lemmy.world 53 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    One drive has a trash for the trash. I’m still not convinced those files are gone after the 2nd empty, I think they just don’t show the other trash cans

    [–] LostXOR@fedia.io 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It's trash cans all the way down.

    [–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    The cloud is just someone else's trash can

    [–] BlackRoseAmongThorns@slrpnk.net 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You know what they say, one man's trash...

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    [–] Swarfega@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago

    Outlook on Exchange is like this. You can delete stuff to the Deleted Items directory. If you delete it from there it goes into another area called 'Recover deleted items'.

    The windows shell has really gone downhill in recent years, with spontaneous file locks and random hangs

    It's always the AV...

    [–] user224@lemmy.sdf.org 44 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    GUI file managers generally have "Trash" feature as well.

    [–] Ziglin@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

    They usually support one but it is generally not provided by the file manager it's self. This means that assuming that the file managers use the same trash system you can trash a file on one recover it another.

    [–] don@lemm.ee 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    Left side: I regularly go bowling with the demon core

    Right side: I have read the demon core’s wiki 314 times

    [–] 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    314 πŸ€”... like as in Pi*100?

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    [–] CriticalMiss@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I never deleted my root system with rm but I did dd go sda instead of sdb and ended up losing my data.

    [–] Rin@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    Holy shit, me too. 6TiB poof

    [–] 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    With great power comes great responsibility. Do check twice what you write.

    Jokes aside, it has happened to almost everyone... and then you learn to QUADRUPLE CHECK dd commands.

    [–] Eccitaze@yiffit.net 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    I haven't accidentally deleted a bunch of data yet (which, considering 99% of my interaction with Linux is when I'm SSH'd into a user's server, I am very paranoid about not doing), but I have run fsck on a volume without mounting the read/write flashcache with dirty blocks on it first.

    Oops.

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    [–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Now wonder, which one is will be preferred by people who aren't tech savvy.

    [–] porl@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

    They are not likely to be using the terminal. Pretty much every graphical file browser will ask for confirmation upon delete, and many will use a rubbish bin by default.

    [–] Ziglin@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

    To be fair, assuming you are not using a wastebasket which comes pre installed in a lot of distros, you still need the right permissions to delete files that belong to the system and if you're using rm you have to use the -rf option to remove a folder and it's contents.

    [–] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)
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    [–] tfw_no_toiletpaper@feddit.de 13 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    If you're going for cli, windows also can do rm -r -Force

    [–] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Or just do Shift Delete in Explorer.

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    [–] Hupf@feddit.de 15 points 1 year ago

    Use the --force Luke

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    [–] jbk@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)
    [–] maiskanzler@feddit.de 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    Btrfs snapshots/subvolumes can now also be deleted with rm. It's no longer necessary to use 'btrfs subvolume delete'

    [–] 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

    Really?

    As I always say, you get the best linux info from linux memes 😁.

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    [–] IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Every time I see I've of these memes my mind goes straight to infomercials.

    [–] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.de 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    Oh well. Didn't really like my mum that much anyways 😒

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    [–] Heavybell@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    Is that actually true? Does Windows check every file with Defender before deleting it?

    [–] 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

    Not just every file deleted, every file written to disk as well (downloaded, extracted from an archive, whatever).

    It's also how most AV software works, except Defender is slow AF.

    [–] vox@sopuli.xyz 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    also, defender is synchronous by default (e.g. nothing gets written until it gets scanned, and scanning parallelization is limited), and can only act asynchronously (aka write first, then queue check) on "trusted dev drives" (aka ReFS-based virtual vhdx partitions aimed at developers as a solution to horrible ntfs throughput, especially if defender is enabled)

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    [–] HStone32@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    Huh. All that security, and yet there are still so many viruses capable of infecting windows.

    [–] deur@feddit.nl 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

    Huh.... all that immune system yet there are still so many viruses capable of infecting humans.

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    [–] EnderMB@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

    One of my first experiences with Linux at university was watching a classmate install Slackware, and then (for a laugh) dragging everything into the recycle bin.

    They got a passing grade, because the lecturer saw their working installation, but they learned a valuable lesson in Linux that if you delete something, it'll fucking delete it.

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