It literally is how wars have been won. Strategy is not decided upon in a vacuum.
cecinestpasunbot
joined 2 years ago
You need to read more news articles from the times then and not just modern accounts of the civil rights movement. The media definitely portrayed the demonstrations as violent and destructive even when most demonstrators were peaceful.
I just don’t understand how this makes Bernie’s statement inconsistent.
Bernie’s focus is the problem here. The anarchists and provocateurs who want to engage in property description don’t care what Bernie has to say. The vast majority of protestors who are peacefully demonstrating are not responsible for their actions. Even then there are many instances of peaceful demonstrators trying to intervene and stop property destruction and violence. “Peaceful protest” is a common chant at these events.
If you have familiarity with all of this, then you’ll recognize that Bernie is just being needlessly condescending to those who are already doing the best that they can. Nobody needs lessons on how or why peaceful protests can be effective. What we need is leaders who are focused on the obscene violence being perpetrated by law enforcement and the current administration.
If you want a better example of how to respond to the current situation you don’t have to look far. AOCs statement is much better.
It is 100% carrying water for the opposition to participate in this collective delusion that Dems for some reason need to answer for every teen who throws a rock rather than hold the Trump admin accountable for intentionally creating chaos and breaking the law to stoke violence. They are in charge.
Seriously. At this point the majority of violence being carried out against protesters in order to protect ICE is being done by local law enforcement. State and city level democrats are not resisting Trump. They’re just mad that he doesn’t realize that they’re on the same team.
The protests Bernie was part of were accused of being violent regardless of how Bernie and the majority of people protesting behaved. That’s the point. Hell if he resisted arrest in anyways today they might try to charge him with assaulting a police officer.
That doesn't matter when ICE isn't giving people their right to due process which they have regardless of their immigration status.
The man is a freak. I wouldn't be surprised if he's as depraved and sick as Epstein was.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/business/elon-musk-children-compound.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/31/business/jeffrey-epstein-eugenics.html
Again, it seems like you have a really vague notion of what value actually is which is what makes you incapable of understanding the concept of labor exploitation. You need to understand the difference between marginal theories of value, which is defined by a circular logic where price determines value and value determines price, and labor theories of value, where people interact with the material world to modify it in some way that gives it added utility.
How is it that simply by being an employer, you are exploiting staff?
It’s not that simple. You can be an employer and not exploit the people that work for you. However, doing that means you will not have a profitable business. Profits come from exploitation. Please understand that when I use the word exploitation I’m not making an inherently moral argument about whether exploitation is good or bad. Exploitation is simply a material phenomena. I believe it only becomes a moral issue when undue suffering occurs as a result of said exploitation.
Is the guy selling kabobs down the street from me exploiting his staff?
He might be. Small business are often some of the most exploitive workplaces because of how unprofitable they can be. It’s not uncommon for a small business to be forced into situations where they really have no choice but to exploit their staff if they want to continue operating. This is why so many restaurants in the US rely on undocumented immigrants who they can pay less than the minimum wage. It’s a flaw in the way our economy works.
I mean, I admit I’m totally being exploited at my current job but I’ve had other jobs where I was paid extremely well and given great opportunities.
This happens to a lot of people in industries where profitability declines. When profits are high, workers in those industries often get paid that they can afford their basic needs. However, as profits wane investors look to bolster them by taking more from their employees. What’s happening in the tech sector is a prime example of such a phenomenon. Unfortunately, this is a tendency that’s baked into the our economy. It prevents long term sustainable from being achieved in industries that are key to our economy but where the opportunities for new markets or innovations are lacking.
You guys are either being dishonest with me or dishonest with yourselves. Or you really have no idea what you’re talking about and just regurgitating what you’ve heard other people say.
Have you thought that maybe you’re the one who’s more confident that you really should be? I get that a lot of what I’ve said may contradict vague notions about how the economy works that you may have absorbed simply because you exist within a world steeped in corporate propaganda. However, your beliefs are not ones that any worthwhile economist would take seriously.
It’s not the type of change people want. However if violent retribution is all that’s on offer it makes perfect sense that someone would eventually take that deal and that people would celebrate it.
I reject this notion that all businesses exist to exploit workers.
That’s because you don’t understand the basic economic principles under which businesses operate. You think value is created out of thin air and is not a product of human labor.
I know my own city has often invested in programs that weren’t really helping those it intended to help. From what I learned this past year, it’s striking how little government knows who is in need of what.
It’s almost like governments do not operate in the democratic interests of the civilian populations they govern…. So strange. I wonder why that could be?
Yeah and then you won’t be able to pay for housing built by other working class people and food grown by other working class people. Wait that’s weird. I can’t seem to find the billionaires in that equation. It’s almost like the needs of working class people could be met by… other working class people.
I was not aware media outlets were talking about how amazing and hardworking billionaires are. No. Do you have some examples?
Oh come on. If you really are in the room with billionaires at charitable events you know the press is often invited to write puff pieces about how generous they are.
Are you saying that wealthy people should not use their money to build hospitals or help dying kids?
I’m saying we shouldn’t let people undemocratically decide whether or not working class people build hospitals and treat dying kids. By advocating that billionaires hold that power you are literally siding against democracy. But hey I guess all those super yachts just need to be built. For the good of society right?
Yeah honestly, if you're only looking at the campaigns that led to overthrow of the government or territorial liberation then it should be somewhat self evident that nonviolent campaigns have better outcomes. They lead to less death and less destruction of infrastructure which is desirable for whatever comes next. Unfortunately, that's not always an option for people seeking liberation.