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The ADL considers anti-zionism to be antisemitic.
I literally don't give a shit what the ADL thinks.
Still poignant to point out how absolutely stupid and hypocritical this entire group is with their bullshit of literally defending a actual Nazi giving the Nazi salute in broadcast tv.
Agreed. It seems they only exist to squelch any criticism of Israel.
This is the most clear possible destruction of their credibility. It's the thing you point to when you say they're full of shit.
Antizionism means to be a against Israel‘s existence. Half the world's Jews live in Israel and the state protects them. Without the state of Israel millions of Jews are in danger of ethnic cleansing or genocide. So the consequences of antizionism are enabling antisemitic acts on a large scale.
Ethno-nationalism is not good.
Colonialism is not good.
Israel is not good. Israel threatens the wellbeing of Jewish people world wide with its act of trying to conflate Israel and Judaism.
The Jewish people apparently are the only people that don’t deserve a right to self determination.
There are thousands and thousands of ethnic groups in the world and only 195 countries.
Knock it off with this racist crap.
Self determination is in the UN Charter and part of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Are these racist?
Self determination means the peoples can decide themselves under what kind of government or state they live.
Was the British and Spanish colonial empire anti racist because it ruled over many ethnicities?
… That does not mean every ethnicity gets its own nation, it means people are not slaves and have choice in their lives.
Do you think every other ethnic group has self determination? The USA is filled with the remnants of tribes that fought the US government and lost their lands. Should they be given those lands back? Are you going to push for all lands to be given back to the ethnic group that held them thousands of years ago or just the one that applies to your interests?
It’s part of the UN Charter and the International Declaration of Human rights and a well established right in international law.
Native American peoples deserve self determination and reparations for sure.
Not every group, because they usually don’t have such a strong cultural connection to some ancient lands anymore. The Jewish people had been a homeless and oppressed minority for centuries. Fleeing and founding their own state in their ancient homeland was the only way to ensure their own survival. Israel is a country of refugees, who had nowhere else to go. I don’t know of another people with a comparable history.
Roma (gypsies) in Europe don’t have such a connection to their ancient homeland for example. I don’t know enough about North American natives to have an informed opinion on it. I know that many tribes were displaced more than once.
It isn’t in the Declaration of Human Rights.
Not every group has connection to the land? Are you dead certain this is the pathway you want to go here? You know that this is at the very least extremely uncomfortable of a suggestion, completely contradicts your initial claim that only Jewish people don’t get a homeland, and completely ignores the connection to the people actually living there at the time, right?
Many minority groups get oppressed throughout history. You should really learn more about other people if you think this is unique to Jewish people. I would start by looking at the Roma peoples of Europe.
Not by means of illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing, no.
A tip: Any such argument that could be (and usually has been) used to defend Nazi Germany in the same fashion is not a great place to start.
Zionism is trash. Israel is the one doing the ethnic cleansing and genocide and using Zionism as part of the excuse for it.
I know it's not the fault of Judaism or Jews in general but goddamn Israel is probably turning people antisemitic because of what they're doing and have done.
Yes. I keep reminding myself my Jewish friends did not choose to attack the Gazans and don't agree with Israel's actions, but wow is the antisemitic brain worm whispering at me.
It doesn't.
They aren't. Maybe some. Not in America, Britain, most of Europe.
Too bad the best-boyfriend-in-the-world is still a boy and doesn't understand world politics.
Zionism is literally the right of the Jewish people to self determination in the form of the state of Israel. It’s simply Jewish nationalism.
Antizionism demands Israel‘s destruction and denies the Jewish nation the right to self determination.
Denying the right to self determination only for the Jewish people, but not for other people (e. g. Palestinians) is antisemitic of course. If you’re opposed to all ethnicity based nation states or states in general, it’s not antisemitic. It’s rarely the case though, that anti-zionists are also against the existence of Finland, Italy, and Mongolia.
So we should all stand to the side and applaud while Israel commits genocide? Look at them go, self-determining, so proud!
Look at what you're writing, really fucking look at it, and tell me you're not supporting a fucking genocide.
Get fucked.
I don’t support the current war on Gaza and support peace. A Palestinian state alongside Israel is the most viable solution still.
Israel doesn't and never will.
Genocide. It's a genocide. Calling it less is apologia/
I know you like.
It is nothing but genocide and you love it for that reason.
Article II of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide defines it like this: https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
So ANY of the above listed acts qualify as genocide. You only need ONE to qualify.
Israel has gone 5 for 5:
Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2025/1/22/live-israel-kills-10-in-the-west-bank-120-bodies-found-in-gaza-in-2-days
"Israel’s war on Gaza has killed at least 47,107 Palestinians and wounded 111,147 since October 7, 2023."
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2jld7j50eo
"The area in Gaza which Israel's military has told people to go to "for their safety" has been hit by 97 strikes since May, BBC Verify analysis has revealed"
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/16/middleeast/israel-palestinian-evacuation-orders-invs/index.html
"The Israeli Defense Forces issued the guidance Friday, telling all civilians in north Gaza to evacuate to areas south of Wadi Gaza “for your own safety and the safety of your families” as the IDF continues “to operate significantly in Gaza City and make extensive efforts to avoid harming civilians.”
However, some Palestinians who followed the evacuation warnings and fled their homes in search of safety suffered the very fate they were running from: Israeli airstrikes killed them outside of the evacuation zone."
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
https://www.savethechildren.net/news/women-self-inducing-labour-and-facing-life-threatening-complications-pregnancy-after-nine
"With the decimation of Gaza’s healthcare system and significant restrictions on the work of aid agencies, pregnant women and new mothers have not had access to the basic health and nutrition requirements as per international standards, said Save the Children. This has caused severe mental and physical harm to many of the mothers and their babies, with some taking extreme measures to try to protect their unborn children."
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/more-women-and-children-killed-gaza-israeli-military-any-other-recent-conflict
"More women and children killed in Gaza by Israeli military than any other recent conflict in a single year – Oxfam"
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
https://www.savethechildren.net/news/palestinian-children-israeli-military-detention-report-increasingly-violent-conditions
"Three organisations tracking the detention of children in the occupied Palestinian territory said they have gathered child testimonies – seen by Save the Children - showing that levels of violence have increased since stricter rules were introduced in October blocking visits from parents or lawyers. Some children have reported broken bones and beatings."
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/over-38-000-palestinian-children-orphaned-by-israeli-war-on-gaza-official/3460181
"More than 38,000 Palestinian children have been orphaned by Israel’s genocidal war on the Gaza Strip since October 2023, a Health Ministry official said on Thursday.
“At least 13,901 women were also widowed by the war,” Zaher al-Wahidi told Anadolu.
The Palestinian official explained that some 32,151 children lost their fathers, 4,417 lost their mothers, and 1,918 lost both parents."
https://www.npr.org/2024/03/13/1238227682/orphans-gaza-rafah-israel-west-bank-sos-childrens-village-international
"An international non-profit organization has evacuated 68 children without parental care as well as 11 employees and their families from Rafah, in southern Gaza, to the Israeli-occupied West Bank."
Cool, glad you think that way. I do have to say though.... that's not how any of your comments (that I have read) in this thread have come off...
The way you came off sounded very much like:
Zionism is Self-Determination for the Jewish people, and speaking out against the way it has been contorted to the ends of extermination of another people who have lived there for hundreds or thousands of years after they agreed to carve out a piece of their country and often welcomed and helped them, is 10000% antisemitism and you should be ashamed.
And then also look at the way the Israeli government treats non-white Jews. Ethiopian Jews are treated almost as badly as Arab "citizens." So don't tell me that Zionism is respectable, or that it should be upheld. Or that it's antisemitism to say that using Zionism as an excuse for an ethnostate is disgusting and a play by play reproduction of what was done by the Nazis, a perpetuation of abuse and trauma that will continue forever if it's not stopped and stomped out.
It’s not my fault, you’re unable to read and only carry hate and prejudice in your heart.
Is just a lie. There’s nothing close to extermination of Palestinians going on. Compare the number of dead to wars in Syria, Sudan, Azerbaijan, Yemen, Iraq.
Are too many Palestinians dying, yes. However, as has been demonstrated just now, Hama could have gotten a ceasefire at any time. They just don’t give a shit about Palestinian deaths.
Check out how black Gazans are treated, that live in Abeed (Arabic for Slave).
Ethiopian Jews are doing pretty well in Israel.
You don’t seem to have any understanding of what the Nazis did, what Zionism is, or what Israel‘s actual policies are. What you’re writing is at least holocaust relativism, which is antisemitic. You should be ashamed.
This is c/politics. Why stop now?
facepalm should have kept that in mind....
You might be the stupidest person who has ever replied to me. Congrats!
This is some real DARVO shit right here...
"You're making me hurt you"
That's not all that Zionism is, you're purposely changing it to fit your narrative. In other words, lying.
That’s the core definition of Zionism. Look it up. There are many flavors of it that disagree on many things.
There are of course antisemites, who will simply replace Jew with Zionist to spread their ideology in a more publicly acceptable manner.
Yes let's reduce it down to whatever was their base idea and not how they have been acting their entire existence. Those Nazis were just people that loved Germany the most! The Zionist didn't just want to live in an area, they wanted everyone else out. Fuck those shit heads, displacement and genocide was the purpose from the beginning. You can disapprove of Israel as an entire nation and not be an antisemite.
What does that have to do with the adl defending elon's nazi salute?
The ADL defending Elon is flabbergasting. They could have just said nothing instead, if they didn’t want to call him out.
Why? Elon supports the same genocide they do, so they're bending over backwards to defend his nazi salute.
As replied elsewhere, it's top to bottom a genocide.
https://lemmy.world/comment/14643153
It is nothing but, and that's the only reason you support it.
As I wrote before, I don’t support the continuation of the war.
You keep refusing to call it a genocide. That's genocide support. And it's all you are.